Who here is a fan of long wandering melodies...

To me this is what music is all about. A melody should be like an adventure and make you feel like you are flying, and take you up and down and put off its inevitable conclusion but keep the tension of anticipation throughout the entire thing but make it peak somewhere before finally returning home (or not! this can be cool too).

For me this is what music is all about. Well...I do all sorts of other things of course, but long, wandering melodies that make me feel as though I am flying are my favorite.

My two favorite artists who weave melodies like this are Rachmaninov, and Opeth. One is a Romantic composer, the other is a Death Metal band. Yes, even death metal bands can craft long, wandering, gorgeous melodies. Wintersun's another which has a few melodies like that....wow. great stuff. I swear....Metal is where Romanticism went in modern times.

oh oh....Arch Enemy's Vox Stellarum. Short, but wow....amazing guitar solo

I don't consider Romanticism old fashioned. The only way it could be construed to be old fashioned is if everyone gives up on it. And everyone hasn't.

Zomfg!!1one

Opeth and Rachmaninov are definately in my top favourites list as well! I had the pleasure of meeting the band during they're Vancouver signing in October.

Metal is where Romanticism went in modern times.

I couldn't have said it better myself. The atmosphere I get from good deep classical music I find prominant in certain metal bands too (particularly black metal for me). The power in these genres haven't even been scrached yet, such expression and imagery.

If your a fan of Opeth I also recommend Drudkh and Ulver if you haven't already heard them. (Ulver's Bergtatt is a good example of they're early brillance, in fact they're whole discography is bereft of dry ideas. As for Drudkh if you can stomache the traditional black metal recordings they're first album is the easiest start.)

It's nice to see someone else with such a passion for Romanticism music : )

Tchaikowsky was a great master at this, too. The "love theme" from the Fantasy-Overture "Romeo and Juliet" is one of the top ten, IMHO.

What I love about some of these guys is they introduce a melody like that toward the beginning of a piece, and you think "My God in Heaven, I can't imagine anything more glorious" as you wipe a little tear from the corner of your eye...and then they bring it back again later, and make it longer, more passionate, and more perfect, to the point where you don't think you can stand it and are choking back sobs.

Tchaikowsky was a great master at this, too. The "love theme" from the Fantasy-Overture "Romeo and Juliet" is one of the top ten, IMHO.

What I love about some of these guys is they introduce a melody like that toward the beginning of a piece, and you think "My God in Heaven, I can't imagine anything more glorious" as you wipe a little tear from the corner of your eye...and then they bring it back again later, and make it longer, more passionate, and more perfect, to the point where you don't think you can stand it and are choking back sobs.

Except for Tchaikovsky's 1st piano concerto. That first glorious melody is played a few times at the beginning, and then never comes back! Sure, the motive is used a lot later on, but the MELODY.....its never brought back. Shame on Tchaikovsky for not bringing it back.

Interesting. I can't stand death metal because of it's inherent gloominess. You don't have to be depressing and ranting and "Roooooar! Death! Satan!" to be a Romantic. Of course, I'm just stereotyping.

I just can't stand death metal. And don't give me that "It's complicated" crap because it's no more complicated than any other genre, in it's own unique way. I've noticed a lot of heavy metal bands have this pretentious attitude about them that their music is "complicated" and all "complex" and crap like that, as if any other group isn't as complicated. Pop music is just as complicated, in a different way. Rap music is just as complicated, though in a different way and a different style. Concerning heavy metal, I just don't like the themes. I don't like the style. I don't like the things they sing about. I don't like how they always have to "prove" that they think 7/8 or whatever is a time signature worthy of creating musical respect. I don't like the sounds it produces. I don't find any of their melodies gorgeous. I don't like the screaming of the singers. Or the growls. It's rediculous, really. Like what are they trying to prove? Angst? Well, why not prove it in a way that the populace can understand clearly.

It's such a musical niche that has its hard core fans, but I am definitely not one of them even find Steve Vai annoying. Basically, heavy metal music is the complete antithesis of my own music. I can't stand listening to depressing shoot-me music. I like upbeat music. Positive music. Songs about love. Songs about life. Songs about happiness. Songs about optimism. Not songs about Death. Murder. Hell. Some Nordic mythology that was already beaten to death by the Wagner shmucks. When I compose, I want people to leave the place with a smile on their face, with an uplifted heart, with something good to look forward to. We are already supersaturated with cynicism, pessimism, and that sort of thing. What's wrong with optimism and light-heartedness? Adventure, passion, love. Give me Romanticism any day, but to say that Death Metal is Romanticism reincarnated, to me, seems like a shot FAR from its mark.

No in fact Opeth is a lot less show-offy with regards to "complexity." However their music exhibits a deeper sort of musical density, that of highly refined musical craftsmanship that is usually only associated with classical composers. They are one of the only metal bands which contain stark contrasts in their music, especially dynamically. Most metal just rides along at one intense volume never letting up.

I actually agree, most metal fans are obsessed with "complex" music. I have some friends who adore the band "Necrophagist" which exhibits astounding virtuosity at their instruments and write highly intricate riffs with many many notes. However, they leave me cold, and quite bored. Opeth, whose riffs are much easier to play, contain an intricacy in melody, rhythm and harmony which together reach such a high point of concinnity I am inclined to say that I enjoy it just as much as Rachmaninov, Chopin, and others, minus perhaps the same adrenalized emotional outbursts of the latter.

There are thousands upon thousands of metal bands who suck, no question about it. There are only a few bands who I feel are truly representative of this Romantic spirit. Opeth, Rhapsody, Nevermore, and Blind Guardian are good examples. You will find great variety in the music of all of these bands. Rhapsody is perhaps the most imitative of actual Romantic/Classical/Baroque western music, but the spirit is in those other bands as well, running the entire gamut of expressive possibilities.

Another genre I like, since we're on the topic of non classical genres we enjoy, is Indian sitar music and veena music. Great stuff. Also...instrumental boogie woogie piano.

I don't think true musical expression is something that only certain genres or people can claim, it can be found nearly anywhere.

I would invite you to check out the song "Face of Melinda" by Opeth for a marvelous demonstration of their expressive power. Your initial reaction will be "what? death metal?.....no way..."

Wolf: I also love black metal. Favorites include Emperor, Enslaved, Old Man's Child, Dimmu Borgir, Dissection (though they could be said to be a weird marriage of black metal and gothenburg melodic death metal), and Covenant (now known as Kovenant).

You could also say that hard-core techno music is complicated. Which it is.

It depends on what you mean by complexity. I'm sure there are some techno bands which exhibit the sort of complexity I am talking about. Glenn Gould put it quite nicely (taken from a post by Cavatina quoting Gould):

"In my view, the really complex language is the one in which not only are there certain rules and regulations, but in which there is also an element that is not quite susceptible to proof, not entirely demostrable, but which to a degree is concealed and subliminal. In other words, I suggest to you that the most complicated endeavours in art are those in which the process of rational decision is closely allied with the instinctive process."

This I feel is densely present in the music of Opeth and the other bands I mentioned. I haven't heard too much Techno music which I feel is of the same level of musical craftsmanship, except perhaps one song by VNV Nation called Beloved. Wonderful song.

You see--this sort of complexity is not evident on the surface. It has to do with timing, and musicality, and much less with formal structure, or the number of notes played. This is what many of my metalhead friends fail to realize.