Choir noob

Hi guys,

Ok I'm putting this out there plain and simple. I am a serious noob with choir music. I have at my disposal a decent choir, but I do not know the general ranges for the types of voices.

If someone knows the full range (I know different caliber choruses have different ranges, but the highest and lowest of each ranges preferably), please post them. In particularly I need these three in addition to the regular chorus members:

Coloratura Soprano

Dramatic Soprano

Mezzo Soprano

Oktavist

Thanks much

Yaz

I've found much of this information on wikipedia, and by the way, those four "bonus" voice types are generally soloists, and if you're writing for a soloist, your best bet is to ask the soloist themselves and find their ranges - and their tessatura, or comfortable range.

But if you'd like a quick guesstimate - assuming you're using the correct clefs for SATB voices - them STB should all be generally within a ledger line of the staff, and alto should be maybe g below middle c to c above middle c. But like I said, this is all rough esitmate stuff, and there will always be those that can go higher or lower.

And an addendum to the tessatura thing - just because a, say, g above the soprano's staff is technically "in the range" doesn't mean it's comfortable or clear.

I've found much of this information on wikipedia....

I still can't believe that this is accurate.

* Soprano: C4 - C6

* Mezzo-Soprano: A3 - A5

* Contralto: F3 - F5

* Tenor: C3 - C5

* Baritone: F2 - F4

* Bass/Basso: E2 - E4

is it? It feels so limited. Maybe I'm too used to writing for strings and bassoon (bassoon has effectively almost five octaves).

A voice with even four octaves is considered pretty profound so yes, this is accurate.

edit: that's why a choir uses so many voice types - range!

A voice with even four octaves is considered pretty profound so yes, this is accurate.

edit: that's why a choir uses so many voice types - range!

All part of a plan? XD

Alright cool. Sounds like four part harmony is a must have for practical choral music too. Time to start working on that too. Oh well XD

Well, the first thing you've got to get used to when writing for choir is that we're not strings or winds... Those posted ranges are very very generous. Like, if you send altos up to F5, someone will smack you. I'll give you the ranges I usually go by; keep in mind that there's a very limited range people can sing well in, and that we get tired easily. Also that many notes, while technically reachable or even "in the range," may just sound gross, may be hard to get certain dynamics on, etc. Like, way up above the treble clef it starts getting very difficult for those sops to sing softly... Also, those notes that are big and climaxy and awesome waaaaay at the top of the range of whatever vocal part--they're climaxy for a reason. You shouldn't use them very frequently at all--a piece based around a high soprano A will be so tiring it'll be almost impossible to sing. Anyway, here's my absurdly detailed range guild:

Your Average Soprano Section

You CAN write them down to middle C, or even the B below if you're feeling adventurous. But that usually only happens in extreme cases or for unison with the altos.

You USUALLY write them down to the D or the E. But range-wise, they'll generally be fine down to the D or C.

People will tell you that you can write them up to high A (i.e., A above the staff). But it will sound disgusting unless "your average soprano section" happens to be all S1s. But YASS is a mix of 1s and 2s, so steer clear. The highest note you should ever write a full soprano section up to is probably high G. (With only S1s, it's a different story. More later.) Note that it's hard to be quiet up there, and still has the tendency to sound mad screechy, esp. in an amature group. The comfortable range for the sops is probably F-E

within the treble staff.

S1s: when you have a soprano split, your S1s can go high--theoretically, they should be able to hit that high A without screeching, 'cause otherwise they wouldn't be S1s. While not exhaustive, you can be far more judicious with your high notes. If you're being nice, you don't write them below a low E, but no one really cares.

Your Average Alto Section

You CAN write 'em down to the G below the treble staff, but many altos are mezzos in disguise and have a tendency to get gravely and heavy down there. You're safer upwards of the B, though the A is usually deemed an okay note. If you want to be on the safe side, stay with B and above. When you're working with A2s, the A and G are fair game, as long as you don't stay down there long enough as to be exhausting, and the F is your lower limit.

As a general rule, don't write your altos above C5, except for maybe a D or two (and preferably only to A1s on splits).

Okay, sorry, that came out longer than I meant it to be, as well as far less organized, but hopefully that helps some. I'm tired, I'll get to the men tomorrow if this is the sort of explanation that you want. Should I write up the men for you?

Yes, you should write them up. This is good and very helpful. ;)

Okay, sorry, that came out longer than I meant it to be, as well as far less organized, but hopefully that helps some. I'm tired, I'll get to the men tomorrow if this is the sort of explanation that you want. Should I write up the men for you?

This is extremely helpful. Please continue. I was afraid those ranges were too generous.

Jesus this really makes me appreciate winds brass and strings.

What level of ensemble is this for? High School? College? Community? Professional?

There are different acceptable limits for each.

Bugger, I started typing this out and then lost it. Welllll, here goes part two of Maianess's absurdly detailed guide to the voice parts.

Your Average Tenor Section

Just for the record, when I talk about the tenor staff, I do NOT mean the tenor clef (hehe, tenor clef), but the treble clef down an octave. Hokay, so, people generally talk about the very bottom of the tenor range as being low C (C3). Personally, I'm uncomfortable with this note for the tenors, but it's technically doable... Be very spare with this note (once or twice a piece, if you must). More acceptable for T2s, though not great. Your average tenor section can have small amounts of low Ds (more for T2s), and are pretty much fine E to E. (Note that despite my dire warnings about low C and D, they're far more doable in practice than in theory, because most tenor sections will be mostly high baritones anyway.) The meat of the tenor range is E to E (basically all of the tenor staff), though be wary of spending too much time up around high D and E. If you must, you can go up to F, but you should probably not send the whole tenor section up to high F, only the T1s.

People say that T1s can go up to high A. (That is, the A a ledger above the tenor staff.) I've never tried using that note, but I would advise against it. I'm sure you could write it if you really wanted to, but you'd need damn good singers to pull it off. Tenor 1s can generally go up to high G, though again, not spending too much time on it, and have more stamina in the upper part of the tenor range than the T2s do. T2s are basically the inverse: low D and E are far easier for them, and they've got more stamina lower in their range. Also, they're usually baritones in disguise. But whatever.

Side note: this will sound a little ridiculous, but my litmus test for a good tenor part is whether or not it can be sung strongly by a low-voiced woman, because we can, gravely-ly, get down to an E or Eb, and up to an F or G before their voice starts to crack. Just a fun fact, and good to use if you're a woman writing choral music.

Your Average Bass Section

Ah, basses. I'll say this right now, and it goes for altos as well: be kind to your basses. Eternal fifths and always having the root of the chord, it can get pretty boring. If you want to do a good deed of choral music, give the basses/altos something exciting, maybe even a melody. And now that I'm done with that PSA, I'll talk about ranges.

Basses as a section are comfortable A to A (in bass clef, of course). You can usually stretch them up to middle C without much trouble, though some bass 2s may complain, but it's not done very often, and that's an awkward register for them, so you shouldn't go up there much/stay there too long. Really low basses can hit notes as low as the D below the bass clef. An entire section of basses... can't. You're safe at low A. G is probably the lowest you should send your entire bass section, though I suppose you could squeeze in an F#. Keep in mind that that low, it gets gravely very easily, and you should take care what syllables you're using, what dynamics you call for, and how long you stay down there. Like, repeated whole notes of low G is infinitely harder than dipping down to low G as part of a melody. A forte on a low G is very difficult, mp's and mf's are more manageable. Stuff like that. It's very easy to forget that basses are people too, and to totally disregard the requirements of the voice for the sake of always giving your chord a root. Don't fall into that trap: basses are singers too, they get tired singing too low for long periods of time, they don't sing crazy leaps easily, etc.

Bass 2s are wonderful and sound glorious. They're pretty comfortable on low Gs (though they shouldn't stay there for a whole piece), and can get Fs with far more ease than bass 1s (though Fs still should be fairly few and far between). Of course, my bass 2 friends say that I'm a bit conservative on my bass 2 range. I've seen pieces that call for low Es and even low Ds out of the bass 2s. All I can say is that these notes should be used extremely sparingly, and only if you know your bass section is capable of it. Low F and upwards is safe, though.

Something to note if you're writing a bass split is that close intervals (thirds and smaller, and even fourths if you're being cautious) tend to sound muddy way down low (think, below low D or C). Keep that in mind and, unless that's the sound you're going for, try to keep things in the bass as open as possible.

Whew. Okay, there, that's my huge big thing about choral ranges. If anyone has any little (or big) questions about choral music, please please PM me, because this is my absolute favorite type of music and I'd love to help! Cheers guys!

Maianess is clearly wrong. Here are the correct ranges for each of the female sections:

* Soprano: C1 - C3

* Mezzo-Soprano: A3 - Bb3

* Contralto: F3 - F8 (I was a little conservative with this one)

Basses as a section are comfortable A to A (in bass clef, of course). You can usually stretch them up to middle C without much trouble, though some bass 2s may complain, but it's not done very often, and that's an awkward register for them, so you shouldn't go up there much/stay there too long. Really low basses can hit notes as low as the D below the bass clef. An entire section of basses... can't. You're safe at low A. G is probably the lowest you should send your entire bass section, though I suppose you could squeeze in an F#. Keep in mind that that low, it gets gravely very easily, and you should take care what syllables you're using, what dynamics you call for, and how long you stay down there. Like, repeated whole notes of low G is infinitely harder than dipping down to low G as part of a melody. A forte on a low G is very difficult, mp's and mf's are more manageable. Stuff like that.

Bass 2s are wonderful and sound glorious. They're pretty comfortable on low Gs (though they shouldn't stay there for a whole piece), and can get Fs with far more ease than bass 1s (though Fs still should be fairly few and far between). Of course, my bass 2 friends say that I'm a bit conservative on my bass 2 range. I've seen pieces that call for low Es and even low Ds out of the bass 2s. All I can say is that these notes should be used extremely sparingly, and only if you know your bass section is capable of it. Low F and upwards is safe, though.

Gonna have to disagree slightly here:

Bass 1 should be able to hit A2 to middle C any old time. In fact, a lot of very standard repertoire (Brahms, Handel) has basses going up to D and even E, though in a very hit-and-get-away-from manner. I tend to think of middle C as the note that all voices should be able to hit.

As for Bass 2, if they're really and truly a bass 2 and not just...a low bass 1, I guess...then getting down to even C2 (below staff) shouldn't be too much to ask for. I've seen people freak out over things like E below the staff which is really perfectly fine, even for an amateur choir - as long as there's a divisi for the baritones (which I basically equate to bass 1) to sing.

Same disagreement for what you said about tenors - tenor 2 should be able to hit C3 no problem, and T1 should be able to hit A without much strain.

I think the problem comes when writing only one line for either voice, and using those extreme ranges. So I suppose a good rule of thumb is - if you've written a note at the fringes of the range, include a divisi or an ossia for the members of that section that aren't in that range.

Edit: and again, staying in either high or low range for a long duration is a bad idea; for the majority of the piece, keep 'em on the staff (exception altos).

Still waiting for the OP to indicate what level of group he's writing for...

Just to add my two cents - answer flint's question as the range changes dramatically with skill level. Also, maianess is not incorrect --- if the choir is an amateur choir. Trust me you'd be astounded how limited the range is for individual singers of the majority of volunteer church choirs and a fair amount of amateur.

Now if there are trained musicians who are non-professionals or semi-professionals/professionals worth their salt maianess' ranges are too conservative.

I don't expect it to be performed for a while, so I'm hoping for a college level chorus or maybe even high if possible. But I suppose college level will suffice for the moment.

sorry for not getting back to you guys sooner. Thank you so much for the advice.

Yasamune

Now if there are trained musicians who are non-professionals or semi-professionals/professionals worth their salt maianess' ranges are too conservative.

Yes, as I said, this is if they are actually "Bass 1" and "Bass 2," and not just people thinking; "well I speak low so I guess I'm a bass."

Really though it all comes back to my initial reply to this thread - "it depends"

Training is everything. I'm a Bass 2 and I can to a B below the clef. Granted, you can barely hear it, but I can hit it consistantly. I can also go up to the D above middle C, and even up to an E if I belt a little. You really need to know what level your choir is at before you write too much. In general, though, the Basses should be able to go up to a middle C, though that can put a bit of a strain on an inexperienced choir.

If you have your people go too low, then they'll be kinda quiet, and if you have them go too high, the women will sound strained, and the men will be forced to go into falsetto. The most powerful portion of the range is (I think) above their middle note and a few notes below their highest note.

Also, you can put a few hard notes in the piece. You're supposed to match the choir to the music, not the other way around. Just try to get a good balance, and don't make anyone hate you. But the best way to learn how to write for choir (I would think) is to sing in one. That way, you get to know how the voice works, which consonants work up high, etc, etc. Plus it's a fun and very useful skill for a musician.

Training is everything. I'm a Bass 2 and I can to a B below the clef. Granted, you can barely hear it, but I can hit it consistantly.

What sort of exercises do you do to hit lower notes, and how low could you go before you were "trained"?

I'm not really too trained, I've just taken about a month of voice lessons. I'm mostly self-taught, and not really too experienced. I could always go that low, but even my middle-Cs used to have to be belted, as my range was several notes below any of the other bass twos. With a ton of practice (my poor, poor family), I am now able to hit that relatively high C really easily. When going low, it's usually more useful to go for volume rather than range, as composers LOVE to have basses sing at the extreme high end of their range. I once had a piece that was all in treble clef, concert pitch.[/gripe]

When learning how to go high, what worked for me was trying to move the point of resonance to your mouth rather than your chest (but keep the focus forward). Keep in mind that I am by no means an expert, and that I still have a long way to go before I have the range I want.

I've compiled as much as I can so far on all the voice types and put it all on our Wiki. Anybody who is more knowledgeable than myself is welcome to make changes or additions to any of these articles. I took a lot of info from this thread, with much thanks to Maianess.

Category:Voice Types

(bassoon has effectively almost five octaves).

since when?

the two octaves below middle C (plus the B and Bb going dow from there).

then working your way up from middle C, another octave and... some.

which still makes it at most 3.5 octaves.

4 octaves makes it the Bb above the treble clef, 5 octaves places it near the flute's very highest note.

since when?

the two octaves below middle C (plus the B and Bb going dow from there).

then working your way up from middle C, another octave and... some.

which still makes it at most 3.5 octaves.

4 octaves makes it the Bb above the treble clef, 5 octaves places it near the flute's very highest note.

:P

Burn.