4'33"

Okay personally, I don't get it.

Yeah, I read the whole thing about "It's not silence, it's the sounds of the environment" but what was the point in it? If we wanted to do that, we could just sit in a room and be silent and listen to the rest of the environment, not pay for an expensive ticket to do it.

What made this piece so popular? I mean it's not like Cage is a genius or anything for writing it, all he did was tell them not to play anything. I mean wow, big whoop. Our band does that every day when our band director tells us not to talk.

Could someone just explain what the point of it was and why it's so popular?

Mathieu

Before anyone explains anything, you have to grow up and use your brain.

Otherwise you won't get it, I promise.

As far as I can tell, no amount of explaining will really get you to "get it." You just have to appreciate for what it is and the fact that he did it. Sure you may think paying to see it happen is lame, but paying to see stuff I can see on tv (like basketball) is lame to some people, but I still do it :D.

I believe that 4'33" is more philosophical than musical. I would also agree with Mathieu in that I don't see the point in it. There is a line between writing music and making a fool of oneself and I believe Cage crossed that line. I have not seen any of his works that merit him talented enough to write such a pointless piece.

In the words of Andy Rooney: "I understand perfectly well that good art is always ahead of public taste. Most of this stuff is certainly ahead of my taste; I don't like it, and if I'm wrong, I'm sure you'll correct me."

You people clearly don't understand... I fart in your general direction.

If I don't understand, then I dare you to enlighten me. What is so astounding about a piece about nothing?

There are many reasons. The fact that it is nothing. Or the fact that there really is something in nothing, or maybe the fact that people liked the idea behind nothing.

There is already a thread about this.. just telling you.

If there are so many reasons, give me a couple.

And if the whole point of 4'33" is to captivate the audience with nothing, then I ask you why people don't sit at home and listen to nothing? I would find listening to nothing at home much more comfortable, especially being able to snuggle up under a blanket with a warm cup of hot chocolate without being surrounded by the rest of the audience shifting in their seats and coughing.

Maybe because listening to "nothing" doesn't cross people's mind very often. Just like staring at a blank sheet of paper and planning to write nothing doesn't cross people's minds very often, so it's a nice experience when you're made to do it.

Maybe one point or the work is to ask, "Why do we distinguish between the nothing we hear everyday and the nothing that some people call music and pay to hear?" This leads to a greater appreciation for the everyday "nothing", the silence and ambient noises that surround us daily. Just sayin'.

If it is such a nice feeling, then why would you force the audience into doing so?

I would also like to add that listening to nothing crosses many peoples' minds, and instead of paying for a ticket to hear it, they just listen to nothing while sipping their morning coffee or their afternoon tea.

I think that we have established quite clearly that 4'33" is about nothing (which I still can't fathom why anyone would want to see that). I want some tangible, real, reasons for Cage's piece. I want to know why someone would write 4'33".

If it's about nothing, then it's about something. Call it seinfield if it makes you feel better. As for why, I just say why not.

If he wrote it for the heck of it, then I declare that he is no composer, but merely a philosopher. He simply made a philosophical point that really has no weight on the present day.

If I am incorrect, I'm sure I'll hear about it.

Oh noes... not this again.

oh noes? not this again?? oh yes!!

4'33'' is as much inevitable topic as 4.20 for many of you smokers ;) haha

well I don't really find this work much musical but just philosophical, and Cage never forced you to listen to it, what he wanted to do, maybe, was to make you do something together with other people, even if it is as banal as doing nothing and listening to natural sounds....

(apart from paying the ticket, and that's is something!!! [here's the only tangible thing you get...ops.. you give!!] )

But another thing he reached is that everybody talks about it, in a good or bad way, they talk about it, and people still wonder and find the most philosophical and great ideas together with those who find other reasons, more low-ended and maybe we all try to think and squeeze our brains to understand why he did that, and maybe he just did it to see who was going to say something and give it importance. and here you are :)

it is written nowhere that you must do something because you have a high idea behind.

sometimes you do something, maybe accidentally, and somebody else likes it, and starts making up ideas on it and evaluating it as the ultimate innovation, and then, smartly enough, you go along the way and you "nod and agree" so to speak, because people will start find for you the ideas to put behind that work, and eventually you'll say "oh yes! that's it!! you've really centred the point of my work! amazing!! i am very impressed" and things like this.

my 4.33 cents hehehe

oh god. Also, can someone please post a score?

I have to agree with whats been said so far, the piece is clearly more of a philosophical merit than an actual piece of art. Many questions can be asked and derived from the episode than other 'actual' pieces - which for the time of the pieces inception was much, much needed (and even today where the atonal/tonal debate has largely ruined classical music - Would you rather have no music at all?)

Here's the best copy of a score I could find, johnoeth. Enjoy!

Here's the best copy of a score I could find, johnoeth. Enjoy!

That's not the original score; that's how the second publisher of the work notated it. The original score actually has things written on the page (abstract lines and dots, if I recall correctly).

Interesting... I didn't find any images of the original score, but I believe you. The artistry of Cage's scores are often just as fascinating as his music.

*doesn't really read entire thread, but notes Xeno's awkward hostility*

It's about being aware of your own existence within a musical environment; of your environment and your aural surroundings.

It's about questioning your own sense of reality; within art and creativity; questioning your definitions of art and creativity.

It's about experiencing and participating in a 'moment' ... a 'happening'.

It's about enjoying sound as music, and vice versa.

Ι propose we censor words like "Cage" and "4" and "33" and "4'33"" and stuff like that. really this is so damn boring and awful (again and again and again and again).

"Young Composers bans all mention of 4'33"."

Awesome. This makes me want to make a wiki article on it with a highly controversial and somewhat "wrong" interpretation of it and protect it so nobody can change it. And link to it every time somebody says for-thirtee-three.

Maybe we should threaten anybody who questions John Cage and his not-quite-silent-but-damn-quiet-disputed-but-often-referred-to-as-"musical"-work with ...

*bassdrumroll* ...

Perhaps to you, Nikolas, but some people need to read this, and some people need to question these things so they can open their minds better. We are all in a constant state of learning and adapting what we "know" to be true.

Regarding 4'33'', I think the thing to keep in mind is that it is a piece designed to focus on the sonic landscape available before a musician ever plays a note. Notes are music, but so is silence. While it is convenient to refer to music as the moment when pitches or rhythms are occurring, a piece does not cease to be music at a caesura.