Quick question!

Sorry if not in good forum, mod please move if necessary.

Main topic:

What if you have a theme in your head and how do you verify if that

theme is copyrighted???

Thanks!

P.S.: If you don`t understand what I mean, let me know.

What if you have a theme in your head and how do you verify if that

theme is copyrighted???

To clarify, you're asking:

Is there a way to check if you're musically stealing something?

I.e. a database of copywritten-melodies and tunes and such?

I don't think so....I suspect, if YOU don't KNOW you're stealing it (i.e. on purpose) then you're okay. It's pretty hard to get nailed for plagiarism if you've never heard what you're supposedly plagiarizing.

To clarify, you're asking:

Is there a way to check if you're musically stealing something?

I.e. a database of copywritten-melodies and tunes and such?

I don't think so....I suspect, if YOU don't KNOW you're stealing it (i.e. on purpose) then you're okay. It's pretty hard to get nailed for plagiarism if you've never heard what you're supposedly plagiarizing.

Hmm, yea I understand, but based on your story, anybody could just

plagiarize a classical music composer and say, HEY, I never heard that,

hmmm.... this needs more input!

Hmm, yea I understand, but based on your story, anybody could just

plagiarize a classical music composer and say, HEY, I never heard that,

hmmm.... this needs more input!

Plagerism is defined as something like four+ notes without parody. If YOU create the music yourself, then you own the copyright. Almost all major classical themes are in public domain (defined as 70 years after the composer's death (1938 or before)) But still, using classical themes is plagerism and not looked good upon.

OK, let`s say I composed Bach`s famous Air In D Major. You would

say that is copied, but I would said: Hmm, I never heard it before, so I

didn`t copied it, it just came in my head.

So, how do you solve this?

OK, let`s say I composed Bach`s famous Air In D Major. You would

say that is copied, but I would said: Hmm, I never heard it before, so I

didn`t copied it, it just came in my head.

So, how do you solve this?

You still plagerized. If it could be mistaken for Bach's piece with prior knowledge of the Air, then you would be accused of plagerism. The problem is, becuase it is in public domain, there is no legal ramifications of said plagerism. However, in academic and comercial situations, it would be suicide.

OK, I understand.

Thanks

It should be noted that copyright/plagiarism regulations are not at all clear when it comes to an artistic usage. Meaning: If you justify it well, live in the right country, and have a favourable jury, you can even get away if you copy an entire piece by another contemporary musician note by note and you will even gain a normal copyright on this product. Certain forms of art like "appropriation art" are built on this whole concept, but there are also reduced forms of this that range from citation, object trouv

If you're woried about using one single melody or motive from another composer, but treating it differently/writing new harmonization to it, don't be: it happens really all the time and as long as you aren't blatant about it I don't think you can get into any legal trouble. The concern, as others have said, comes from the community recognizing you don't have any original thoughts.

Plagerism is defined as something like four+ notes without parody. If YOU create the music yourself, then you own the copyright. Almost all major classical themes are in public domain (defined as 70 years after the composer's death (1938 or before)) But still, using classical themes is plagerism and not looked good upon.

Four notes? You gotta be kidding... If that were true, composers would have been out of business long ago. Every four-note combination have already been used countless times.

Also, classical composers regularly "stole" entire melodies from one another. It was actually a proud tradition of the classical era, to "steal" themes from composers you admired, and then treat those themes in a different way.

For example, compare the following two themes:

1. Beethoven's Piano Sonata #1 in F minor, 1st movement - the main theme.

2. Mozart's Symphony #25 in G minor, 1st movement - the second part of the main theme.

I'm not sure who "stole" from who in this case, but the two themes are practically identical. Here we are talking of not 4 or 5 notes, but a complete theme of 18 notes (36 notes in the Mozart, because it has each section repeated twice).

So what are you going to say? That Beethoven and/or Mozart weren't good enough to write their own original music?

It all boils down to whether the "borrowed" theme or fragment works in the new context of your own piece. If it does, then it is artisitically valid (though if the borrowed theme is copyrighted, you might still face trouble in court)

Sorry if not in good forum, mod please move if necessary.

Main topic:

What if you have a theme in your head and how do you verify if that

theme is copyrighted???

Unfortunately, you can never be 100% sure.

The best you can do, is play the theme to as many people as you can, and ask them "do you know this one?".

And even then, there's always a possibility of screwing up. It happened to me once, and believe me - it's embarassing as hell. Imagine the horror of discovering that the entire scherzo movement of your latest sonata was subconsciously "borrowed" from an existing piece. Bah! I guess this is one of the professional (?) risks of being a composer, heh?

Unfortunately, you can never be 100% sure.

The best you can do, is play the theme to as many people as you can, and ask them "do you know this one?".

And even then, there's always a possibility of screwing up. It happened to me once, and believe me - it's embarassing as hell. Imagine the horror of discovering that the entire scherzo movement of your latest sonata was subconsciously "borrowed" from an existing piece. Bah! I guess this is one of the professional (?) risks of being a composer, heh?

Yea, I understand your point. Thanks :)

The difference is, today, we have intellectual copyright laws. Back then, plagerism wasn't such a big deal, today it is.

And when I say four notes, I mean four notes plus that are easily recognizable to a previously written composition. This, of course, doesn't include parody.

I don't really think that Intellectual copyright laws truly stop plagiarism. One only has to look at many of John Williams works to see that.

But the intent of them is so. And I'm not sure one could legally make the case for Williams being a plagiarist. Sure, he plagiarizes in layman's terms, but in legal terms it's not plagiarism.