variousmusik Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Sorry if not in good forum, mod please move if necessary. Main topic: What if you have a theme in your head and how do you verify if that theme is copyrighted??? Thanks! P.S.: If you don`t understand what I mean, let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinjessome Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 What if you have a theme in your head and how do you verify if thattheme is copyrighted??? To clarify, you're asking: Is there a way to check if you're musically stealing something? I.e. a database of copywritten-melodies and tunes and such? I don't think so....I suspect, if YOU don't KNOW you're stealing it (i.e. on purpose) then you're okay. It's pretty hard to get nailed for plagiarism if you've never heard what you're supposedly plagiarizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
variousmusik Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 To clarify, you're asking:Is there a way to check if you're musically stealing something? I.e. a database of copywritten-melodies and tunes and such? I don't think so....I suspect, if YOU don't KNOW you're stealing it (i.e. on purpose) then you're okay. It's pretty hard to get nailed for plagiarism if you've never heard what you're supposedly plagiarizing. Hmm, yea I understand, but based on your story, anybody could just plagiarize a classical music composer and say, HEY, I never heard that, hmmm.... this needs more input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Hmm, yea I understand, but based on your story, anybody could justplagiarize a classical music composer and say, HEY, I never heard that, hmmm.... this needs more input! Plagerism is defined as something like four+ notes without parody. If YOU create the music yourself, then you own the copyright. Almost all major classical themes are in public domain (defined as 70 years after the composer's death (1938 or before)) But still, using classical themes is plagerism and not looked good upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
variousmusik Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 OK, let`s say I composed Bach`s famous Air In D Major. You would say that is copied, but I would said: Hmm, I never heard it before, so I didn`t copied it, it just came in my head. So, how do you solve this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 OK, let`s say I composed Bach`s famous Air In D Major. You wouldsay that is copied, but I would said: Hmm, I never heard it before, so I didn`t copied it, it just came in my head. So, how do you solve this? You still plagerized. If it could be mistaken for Bach's piece with prior knowledge of the Air, then you would be accused of plagerism. The problem is, becuase it is in public domain, there is no legal ramifications of said plagerism. However, in academic and comercial situations, it would be suicide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
variousmusik Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 OK, I understand. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardener Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 It should be noted that copyright/plagiarism regulations are not at all clear when it comes to an artistic usage. Meaning: If you justify it well, live in the right country, and have a favourable jury, you can even get away if you copy an entire piece by another contemporary musician note by note and you will even gain a normal copyright on this product. Certain forms of art like "appropriation art" are built on this whole concept, but there are also reduced forms of this that range from citation, object trouv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 If you're woried about using one single melody or motive from another composer, but treating it differently/writing new harmonization to it, don't be: it happens really all the time and as long as you aren't blatant about it I don't think you can get into any legal trouble. The concern, as others have said, comes from the community recognizing you don't have any original thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guri Harari Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Plagerism is defined as something like four+ notes without parody. If YOU create the music yourself, then you own the copyright. Almost all major classical themes are in public domain (defined as 70 years after the composer's death (1938 or before)) But still, using classical themes is plagerism and not looked good upon. Four notes? You gotta be kidding... If that were true, composers would have been out of business long ago. Every four-note combination have already been used countless times. Also, classical composers regularly "stole" entire melodies from one another. It was actually a proud tradition of the classical era, to "steal" themes from composers you admired, and then treat those themes in a different way. For example, compare the following two themes: 1. Beethoven's Piano Sonata #1 in F minor, 1st movement - the main theme. 2. Mozart's Symphony #25 in G minor, 1st movement - the second part of the main theme. I'm not sure who "stole" from who in this case, but the two themes are practically identical. Here we are talking of not 4 or 5 notes, but a complete theme of 18 notes (36 notes in the Mozart, because it has each section repeated twice). So what are you going to say? That Beethoven and/or Mozart weren't good enough to write their own original music? It all boils down to whether the "borrowed" theme or fragment works in the new context of your own piece. If it does, then it is artisitically valid (though if the borrowed theme is copyrighted, you might still face trouble in court) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guri Harari Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Sorry if not in good forum, mod please move if necessary.Main topic: What if you have a theme in your head and how do you verify if that theme is copyrighted??? Unfortunately, you can never be 100% sure. The best you can do, is play the theme to as many people as you can, and ask them "do you know this one?". And even then, there's always a possibility of screwing up. It happened to me once, and believe me - it's embarassing as hell. Imagine the horror of discovering that the entire scherzo movement of your latest sonata was subconsciously "borrowed" from an existing piece. Bah! I guess this is one of the professional (?) risks of being a composer, heh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
variousmusik Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 Unfortunately, you can never be 100% sure.The best you can do, is play the theme to as many people as you can, and ask them "do you know this one?". And even then, there's always a possibility of screwing up. It happened to me once, and believe me - it's embarassing as hell. Imagine the horror of discovering that the entire scherzo movement of your latest sonata was subconsciously "borrowed" from an existing piece. Bah! I guess this is one of the professional (?) risks of being a composer, heh? Yea, I understand your point. Thanks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 The difference is, today, we have intellectual copyright laws. Back then, plagerism wasn't such a big deal, today it is. And when I say four notes, I mean four notes plus that are easily recognizable to a previously written composition. This, of course, doesn't include parody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawoodruff Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I don't really think that Intellectual copyright laws truly stop plagiarism. One only has to look at many of John Williams works to see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 But the intent of them is so. And I'm not sure one could legally make the case for Williams being a plagiarist. Sure, he plagiarizes in layman's terms, but in legal terms it's not plagiarism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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