Thread for blackballoons

[Daniel]

Do you feel like working on a new piece for strings?

Want to cover some general principles of string writing?

Anything you want to work on, let me know, and we'll get started. I'd rather work through a piece with you than just focusing on theory.

[blackballoons]

Hi Daniel,

At this point I'm working out a flute sonata...so since I'm in that gear right now, would it be alright to stay on that track for a while? I'd really like to write some string stuff after I finish my flute piece though; perhaps a string quartet or a violin sonata!

But yeah, at the moment I'd like to focus on the flute piece I'm writing. I hope that's okay. :/

[Daniel]

How far through it are you? If you've much of it done, I'll only really be able to offer suggestions as we go. I'm fine to do that though.

Post it in this thread, if you want to work on it.

[blackballoons]

Can do!

I started with the slow movement, which will eventually become the second or third movement of the entire piece.

I'm slightly concerned with how well the key-change fits in with the beginning of the piece. I want to maintain the sort of "dark" feel to it, but I want to have some kind of noticeable change at that point.

EDIT: And I just started last week, so...I wouldn't say it's very far through.

[Daniel]

I had typed a post, but it appears the browser closed.

Here's a brief summary:

Good ideas, but the main thing you need to sort out is: consistency / continuity.

In other words, make sure the harmonic world of the piece stays consistent. Don't have one type of harmony and then suddenly an unrelated type. (See for example nar 10 where that cluster comes in -- totally unprepared/unexpected. Try voicing it differently.)

Ditto with motifs / ideas. There are probably too many ideas, with each not being fully expanded upon. Kind of like train-of-thought writing.

Some examples: bar 15, where you have that semidemiquaver figure, which is only used in that one bar. It really stuck out, so do something with it, or get rid of it. (I know it's like the demisemis on in the melody from b.7 on, but in b.15 it's on the beat, which makes a big difference.)

Another example: bar 18 feels like a new, somewhat related section. It could link in very smoothly if you continued with some of the motivic ideas / figuration from previous. If that accomp. figure must be thus, you'll need to prepare it better in bars 16-17. You need to create an effective transition between the two sections....Join them together, so that there is no sudden "hmm, where'd that come from" when we reach b.18.

The key change works fine.

I've only touched on a couple of specific examples here, but the issues are throughout (though they're not really serious).

As I said in my (now lost) post, this is a nice bit of work, with a good sustained atmosphere.

[blackballoons]

Alright; I'll go back and fix some things; regarding the transition at 18, I think you're absolutely correct. I just can't grasp how to smoothly connect the two sections though...but I will give it my best shot.

The chord at 10 has been fixed; I voiced it as C-B-Db instead of a cluster.

Semidemiquaver figure has been fixed. (by that I mean omitted)

So now I'll focus on fixing the transition. I should have something up tomorrow. :)

Thank you so much!

EDIT: After a frustrating brainstorming session, I ended up deleting the accompaniment figure from 18 on. I think I could've done a much better job with it anyway, and I couldn't think of a good transition into the new section. I do think the key change is alright though, so I'll keep working on it.

[Daniel]

Show me what you do with the new transition and the new accomp. figure when it's done (tomorrow, whenever), and I'll see if I can help with that.

Transitions are tricky -- you have to make sure the idea is connected on each side.

Like: Idea 1 --- Trans. --- Idea 2.

The transition could take bits of Idea 1 and meld them into something from Idea 2, or hint at it. Just as long as it's not too abrupt.

There's a place for abrupt transitions, but I don't think we want that here -- do you agree?

Anyway, feel to work at whatever pace you want to -- I'm busy this week, so I can only help out a wee bit anyway.

[blackballoons]

I revised the section from m. 18 forward; actually, I rewrote it. I think it's more fitting and has more direction now. I also fixed that pesky transition, I hope.

[Qmwne235]

Thomas (if I may temporarily hijack this thread to offer you a suggestion), you may want to try livening up your accompaniment figures. I've noticed in a few of your pieces that your accompaniments are always rather minimalistic and repetitive, which works in many instances, but at least once in a while, you should try to make them more lively. Maybe giving the solo part a rest and letting the piano take over for a little while, or using a conversational style would be better in some cases. Or, you could give the piano a countermelody, a second theme, or some other figure, as long as it doesn't distract the listener too much. I recommend listening to many of Hindemith's duo sonatas, in which he treats the two as equals.

The accompaniment in your revised version is much better, though.

And write something for viola soon, pretty please? :D Or do you have too much on your plate already?

Anyway, good luck with this sonata!

[blackballoons]

Thomas (if I may temporarily hijack this thread to offer you a suggestion), you may want to try livening up your accompaniment figures. I've noticed in a few of your pieces that your accompaniments are always rather minimalistic and repetitive, which works in many instances, but at least once in a while, you should try to make them more lively. Maybe giving the solo part a rest and letting the piano take over for a little while, or using a conversational style would be better in some cases. Or, you could give the piano a countermelody, a second theme, or some other figure, as long as it doesn't distract the listener too much. I recommend listening to many of Hindemith's duo sonatas, in which he treats the two as equals.

And write something for viola soon, pretty please? :D Or do you have too much on your plate already?

Hindemith for the win! Last year I played his flute sonata for a festival. Great stuff.

The conversation/countermelody is a good idea. I'll give that a shot.

Viola? Eeeh...maybe one day! Sorry man.

[blackballoons]

Yet another update.

I'm going to continue going with the codetta/development.

[Daniel]

OK, good work. Definite improvements in flow here.

Try to avoid using chords with the interval of a 2nd at the very bottom of them. They're acoustically very distinctive (and unwieldy) and you have used one or two here, and the rest of the time your chords are bare 5ths, or types of triads.

This is the inconsistency I was talking about. If you want to use chords with 2nds at the bottom, use them consistently. Otherwise, try a different voicing.

There is a sextuplet around bar 15 or so that stands out, since it is so different to the rest of the rhythms used. I like the sextuplet, but you leave it once and then ditch it (again, inconsistency).

Try to incorporate it slightly more into the texture from then on. Maybe you could even make a feature out of it. Probably it'll just work better to provide relief from the 'squareness' of the constant semiquavers.

I like the new section towards the latter part of this, though it needs a bit of polish. Watch now that the demisemiquaver motion doesn't become monotonous. If you use the sextuplets in the previous section, as I suggest, you could maybe even bring them in here, to break up the constant demisemis.

Just some thoughts. Good work, and keep at it.

[blackballoons]

I had a few days of creative block, but eventually it came to me and now it's coming along rather smoothly. Does need a little polish though...tell me what you think! :)