Looking to distance study for Masters and/or PhD

Greetings!

I don't know if this is the correct section, but I am posting it here as it seems to be the closest one to my 'needs'.

I have looking here in the UK to study for a distance MA/MMus and/or PhD/DMus in Composition (NOT contemporary or 21st C), but no-one seems to offer a distance course. Plenty offer part-time, but none of these are within travelling/stuyding distance.

So, I am turning to the US. Does anyone know of a University which can offer a distance degree (Masters and/or Doctorate) in Music Composition, especially where I can submit my own original works but without the "everything must be computer-based, electronic music, modern music, contemporary music etc... music". I am not looking to compose pastiche, but I am looking to write tuneful music (LOL).

I would be looking to study here and meet online with supervisors, send scores and MP3s across for supervision and so on. If possible, no travel to the US too.

Do these courses exist, and can anyone help me start in the right direction?

Many thanks.

I'm not sure of all of the rules for this program, (if you have to be in the country?) but you can look into it. It is BYU-Independant Study at Brigham Young University. Anyway, here is the website for it. BYU Independent Study - Distance Education Courses - Online Learning I hope I could be of some help!

I'm not sure of all of the rules for this program, (if you have to be in the country?) but you can look into it. It is BYU-Independant Study at Brigham Young University. Anyway, here is the website for it. BYU Independent Study - Distance Education Courses - Online Learning I hope I could be of some help!

Thanks for the reply and website.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any info for Masters or Doctorates on their site.

Masters is a TAUGHT degree and as such you usually have to BE THERE. At least in the UK. On the contrary I was offered a place in the University of Birmingham for a PhD in composition, and I was discussing the idea of me living in London and traveling less than once a month, or even move back to Greece and keep studying.

Studying composition from a distance is not impossible, after a certain level. But do get all the foundation you do need to be there.

Why a distance and not move where the university is? If I may ask, of course. Because if, for example, there is a disability involved, you might have different chances.

Also, be aware that most universities I know WILL teach at a Masters level contemporary music: It's what remains to be taught. If you want to compose tonal music, you can do so by learning harmony, counterpoint, fugue and Beethovian orchestration. After that if you start learning compositional techniques, you either go to counterpoint and such excersizes, or fall to the 20th century, where there's more to be taught.

Masters is a TAUGHT degree and as such you usually have to BE THERE. At least in the UK. On the contrary I was offered a place in the University of Birmingham for a PhD in composition, and I was discussing the idea of me living in London and traveling less than once a month, or even move back to Greece and keep studying.

No they are not. MA in Composition is taught whilst MMus and MPhil is usually by research i.e. portfolio with a dissertation/thesis. So no problems on that score providing they allow these to do studied for hundreds of miles away.

Studying composition from a distance is not impossible, after a certain level. But do get all the foundation you do need to be there.

Why a distance and not move where the university is? If I may ask, of course. Because if, for example, there is a disability involved, you might have different chances.

Some of us can't afford to quit our jobs then pay to go study full-time + pay the fees + living expenses. A few years back, yes, now, no.

Also, be aware that most universities I know WILL teach at a Masters level contemporary music: It's what remains to be taught. If you want to compose tonal music, you can do so by learning harmony, counterpoint, fugue and Beethovian orchestration. After that if you start learning compositional techniques, you either go to counterpoint and such excersizes, or fall to the 20th century, where there's more to be taught.

I don't want to specifically be taugh composition, simply submit some works and earn my Masters. I intend to do the theory side of things myself, altough I do write music now (and have written in fugual style, choral music, and pastiche) so would not require a taught Masters.

I don't want to write in a style, I wish to write original music in my style and get a Masters for it. I realise this isn't the be all and end all, but I would like to have an academic qualification in composition or compositional techniques, but tonal.

I hope you're allowed to write tonal music at advanced level; it would absolutely suck if that wasn't the case. I think you can do this at the Royal Academy in London, did you check them out? (I assume you probably did!) Of course if they won't let you do distance, there's probably no point...

Can you get a little less defensive, please? I hope you do realise I was trying to help you!

No they are not. MA in Composition is taught whilst MMus and MPhil is usually by research i.e. portfolio with a dissertation/thesis. So no problems on that score providing they allow these to do studied for hundreds of miles away.

Actually MMus, which I did in London IS a taught degree, and as far as I know all Masters are. MPhil, is most usually considered the "middle-step" to a PhD, which rarely people go for, unless they actually fail for a PhD, so I didn't think of that. MPhil, indeed is research, but MMus is NOT research as far as I know.

Some of us can't afford to quit our jobs then pay to go study full-time + pay the fees + living expenses. A few years back, yes, now, no.

Well, how should I know that? Thanks for replying, it does solves my queries.

I don't want to specifically be taugh composition, simply submit some works and earn my Masters. I intend to do the theory side of things myself, altough I do write music now (and have written in fugual style, choral music, and pastiche) so would not require a taught Masters.

So you actually want some kind of paper confirmation that you know music, the way you do now and the way you "think" you know it?

Sorry but this is not how academic life works.

I haven't seen your works, have no idea who you are or how you write music, you maybe the next... "insert composer name here" composer, who knows. But in general terms learning from a teacher/supervisor/professor is not a bad idea.

Pastiche is generally frown upon in the academic world. (Please notice all those "general" words I put. I'm trying to be NON absolute, ok?) Fugual style seems "old fashioned", I'm sorry to say, although one of my favourite works of all time is Bartoks Music for strings... blah blah, and I've also writen a few fugues myself. Choral music, I've no idea if you mean Stockhausen or Bach.

I don't want to write in a style, I wish to write original music in my style and get a Masters for it. I realise this isn't the be all and end all, but I would like to have an academic qualification in composition or compositional techniques, but tonal.

Quick questions:

* How do you know your music is original, if you don't know what's out there?

* How will you know what's out there if you don't study (extensively) all "genres" of music and styles, etc?

* How can you define your style if you don't know the other styles? Fugual music is not a style.

* Why would anyone give you academic qualifications for doing just what you feel like?

Again, I reserve my stance in case you are the next "insert composer's name here" in which case universities are known to provide honorary degrees. It actually sounds like you're looking for something like that probably. Like a credential which proves that you are already further than that, or as good, or whatever. Honorary degrees, do exist, and I do believe I know people who have gotten PhDs this way.

_______________________

Final question (rather personal): Why do you want to get a degree (Masters or PhD)?

Because a PhD degree, apart from confirming a studying period in a university, comlpying with certain rules, providing the academic world with your thesis, etc, ALSO provides YOU the knowledge to teach: Academies are schools, a person with a PhD is enabled to teach.

Just some thoughts for you.

And I, honestly, hope I've helped a bit.

And I, honestly, hope I've helped a bit.

Actually, no, you haven't helped at all.

If you are interested, I can send you links galore of courses in the UK where MMus is by portfolio only or portfolio and write-up.

However, I did not start this thread to be questioned, interviewed or try to justify what, who, where, what. So far 2 people have been helpful by suggesting things. I never thought of places like RAM etc...

I was simply asking of anyone in the US if they knew of institutions where I can submit tonal works as a portfolio and gain a Masters (MA/MMus/MPhil MWhatever) to show my proficiency in composition. If these places don't exist, so be it. If they do exist yet they don't want me (because I might not be good enough), so be it. The UK doesn't seem to offer what I want, in particular the distance bit. I am however close to London, so maybe the academies there can help me out.

As for honorary degrees, I know of no such places. However, I do know of honorary degrees being given out by unis, but they don't usually give them to nobodies! :thumbsup:

I'm not interested in the least bit to check unis which provide MMus which are not taught. I have an MMus with distinction (and btw, Trinidy, Birmingham, UCE, Rhul, Kings college, Goldsmith and Manchester unies were, in 2004 ALL taught) and finishing my PhD so I really don't give much dime about learning that indeed there are non taught MMus's around. I provided my point of view, which you didn't like and took offense. So be it.

The questions I asked were geared to know a bit more about you, so I (we) could provide better ideas, or better thoughts. Just mere one sentence questions are usually not best answered. They were not interviews to annoy you or put you down or anything. But knowing where the other person is coming from is usually a good idea to provide a bit of "advice" if you will.

You obviously know yourself so well that there's no reason in discussing anything further, or trying to find some alternatives.

Good luck with what you want to do, good luck with your composing and good luck with your life, work, etc.

PS. From personal experience: I'm Greek and got a scholarship (from Greece, but there are brit alternatives, I'm fairly sure of that) which took care of tuition fees and a stipend for a few years, maybe that's another option? (Again I would normally ask your age, etc, since they are a bit relavent but then again I would be probably accused of fascism or something so I stop here ;))

I'm not interested in the least bit to check unis which provide MMus which are not taught. I have an MMus with distinction (and btw, Trinidy, Birmingham, UCE, Rhul, Kings college, Goldsmith and Manchester unies were, in 2004 ALL taught) and finishing my PhD so I really don't give much dime about learning that indeed there are non taught MMus's around. I provided my point of view, which you didn't like and took offense. So be it.

The questions I asked were geared to know a bit more about you, so I (we) could provide better ideas, or better thoughts. Just mere one sentence questions are usually not best answered. They were not interviews to annoy you or put you down or anything. But knowing where the other person is coming from is usually a good idea to provide a bit of "advice" if you will.

You obviously know yourself so well that there's no reason in discussing anything further, or trying to find some alternatives.

Good luck with what you want to do, good luck with your composing and good luck with your life, work, etc.

PS. From personal experience: I'm Greek and got a scholarship (from Greece, but there are brit alternatives, I'm fairly sure of that) which took care of tuition fees and a stipend for a few years, maybe that's another option? (Again I would normally ask your age, etc, since they are a bit relavent but then again I would be probably accused of fascism or something so I stop here ;))

I have, as far as I know, looked into being sponsored, receiving grants etc... from institutions, privately and grant-giving sources but to no avail. I haven't sat on my hands and after 30 mins thought, let's start a thread and see what happens. I have looked at goodness know how many universities in England, Wales, Scotland AND Ireland, and nothing. Part-time, yes, distance, no. I am sure I could get on a taught MA course, which would be my preferred route, but this is not possible because of where I live and the fact that I am in full-time work.

The UK cannot offer ME what I would like to to. So, I have to turn to courses offered abroad. It is a big shame the UK cannot provide budding composers like me the chance to earn the same level as a person who has the means (financially in particular). I know plenty of people who have done Masters and to be honest, their level of music is astonishing (as in low), but they have the cash.

I will keep on looking and hope to find something. If I don't, I don't. I will carry on writing regardless, and carry on writing in my style which is very much original. Having started piano at 6, then A Level in Music then a Bachelors from Durham (and Teacher Training after that with 5 years teaching experience), I can safely say I have heard many many styles of music, some of which I have studied in great depth, so therefore I can also safely say that my original music is indeed original to me. Of course, I will not be naive in saying that these days 'original' is totally original. Plenty of composers write original music but with a couple of thousand of years of music, is there anything left which is original? Anyway, that's a different thread and story... :P

Thanks to all who have replied back - anyone else?