music school admission

Is it there any possibility of being admitted into a music composition program at any institution without being proficient with an instrument and/or having formal background in music theory?

My university forced applicants to take a theory test, and have at least Grade 5 Piano. Obviously this is different from different institutions. But I think if you have great talent in composing, then they might make an exception. If they don't, don't let that hold you back.

Well, I'm not sure what you mean with "formal background in music theory". You don't need a Master's degree in music theory to study composition. But you need a solid fundamental knowledge, usually a higher one than people who want to study an instrument. As for the instrument: Most schools will require the ability to at least play one instrument to a certain degree. But there are differences there. There are schools that have only minimal requirements in this respect, but they usually have higher ones in others, such as theory. (Also, if you're applying for a postgraduate degree, you often won't have to audition on an instrument - here it's different thigns that matter more.)

Generally, you can't study composition if you don't already know quite a few things. You need to have composed before. And you should have an experience with music that goes beyond just composition, but covers a somewhat wider range.

Well I can play electric/classical guitar and a bit of keyboard, but my technique is not very comprehensive; I can do some things quite well and other things hardly at all. I can improvise all kinds of melodies, rhythms, and harmonies, but to play an entire song start to finish without mistakes, especially one not of my choosing, is usually a no go.

I have composed quite a bit before and I feel pretty confident with my ability to come up with melodies, rhythms, and counter-melodies and to work through a piece by ear. I also understand some of the basic concepts common to most/all music. But I don't compose music according the rules of harmony; most of my compositions are modal or at least composed oblivious to the harmony thats going on. Also, I do not have a large number of finished compositions that I consider to be reasonable quality and those that I do have are scattered across genres like metal, video game, folk, acoustic, etc.

So its not like I'm new to playing or composing music, but I'm not at all conventional in my approach or skill-set.

I think I remember you saying a while back that you cannot read conventionally notated music. If this is the case, a music school will not accept you, period.

Well I can play electric/classical guitar and a bit of keyboard, but my technique is not very comprehensive; I can do some things quite well and other things hardly at all. I can improvise all kinds of melodies, rhythms, and harmonies, but to play an entire song start to finish without mistakes, especially one not of my choosing, is usually a no go.

I have composed quite a bit before and I feel pretty confident with my ability to come up with melodies, rhythms, and counter-melodies and to work through a piece by ear. I also understand some of the basic concepts common to most/all music. But I don't compose music according the rules of harmony; most of my compositions are modal or at least composed oblivious to the harmony thats going on. Also, I do not have a large number of finished compositions that I consider to be reasonable quality and those that I do have are scattered across genres like metal, video game, folk, acoustic, etc.

So its not like I'm new to playing or composing music, but I'm not at all conventional in my approach or skill-set.

You might want to attend a community college and work really hard and transfer to a state university after that. If you work really hard, you could get accepted into probably anything within your state if it is a state school. Work hard there and get into a good music school after that.

I think I remember you saying a while back that you cannot read conventionally notated music. If this is the case, a music school will not accept you, period.

Yeah that's the case. I remember playing trombone in grade 6 band and always writing the slide positions above of the notes. Then I switched to bass guitar in grade 7 and just guessed which frets I should be playing...lol. probably should have just bit the bullet back then..

You might want to attend a community college and work really hard and transfer to a state university after that. If you work really hard, you could get accepted into probably anything within your state if it is a state school. Work hard there and get into a good music school after that.

So if I understand you correctly it goes college>university>music school, with college admitting basically anyone? I don't really have my heart set on a prestigious music school or anything. I just wanna go somewhere that I can spend the next 4 years developing my music and hopefully learn some things from some other musicians.

Going into any college or university music program, you will be tested and auditioned based upon what it is you want to do. Vocalists present several songs of varying genre's/languages. Instrumentalists will present several pieces of varying moods and periods. It's the same idea for prospective composition majors. If you can prove to them you are worth their investment, you can get into the school. No university I have ever looked into (3-4 dozen) has required you have extensive knowledge in theory before you come in. The purpose of having theory classes as an undergraduate requirement at EVERY college, university, or conservatory (maybe in the world, definitely in the US) is because all you have to present to them is a talent in your area of interest to get accepted. If everyone came in with a founded base of theory knowledge, there'd be no need for schools to spend money offering the lower-level theory classes which are almost always entirely freshman music majors. A theory placement test may exempt some people from the lower levels of theory/ear training or from taking them altogether, but I guarantee you, if you have several finished compositions, in whatever format you choose, of multiple genres, and present them to a school's composition program as an incoming freshman, they will consider you regardless of your theory background and just start you from the beginning on your teaching. I say go for it(whatever it is you want to do), and you've got a decent chance of being accepted into most universities and colleges, at least to my knowledge as an undergrad who's personally been part of 3 different school's music programs for at least a year each so far(i can't get comfortable at one place, lol). Conservatories will obviously be a bit harder to get into, but any standard University or college's school of music is approachable without a great deal of (if any)theory knowledge.

As far as an instrument, this may also not be necessary. As some said, it will depend on the school as to whether or not you have to be proficient on some instrument. Many schools will have private composition lessons available (required for comp. majors) just as a vocalist or instrumentalist would take private lessons weekly on their own instrument. I have seen many schools require composition majors to be part of a major ensemble (band/orchestra/choir) just so you come out well rounded. This would obviously require you to play an instrument or sing well enough to be in whichever group, but again, your compositions ARE your instrument, and that's what the focus will be on.

A side note...

Yeah that's the case. I remember playing trombone in grade 6 band and always writing the slide positions above of the notes. Then I switched to bass guitar in grade 7 and just guessed which frets I should be playing...lol. probably should have just bit the bullet back then..

Shame on you!

:angry:

/rant

Not at any serious composition school, no. Maybe at the thrown-together composition program of some fourthrate university.

Plus, its not usually a good idea to compose without background on an instrument...and its actually virtually impossible to compose without background in music theory. So the simple answer to your question is no.

Er, I doubt anyone would call Indiana University's Jacob School or Eastman's composition program a "thrown-together composition program of some fourthrate university". You are required to actually be proficient at what you do at both of these institutions (unless they have changed their requirements since I last looked).

You SHOULD be proficient in your instrument and music theory. Why the heck wouldn't you be?

Eastman DOES require instrument proficiancy. In fact, it's the ONLY conservatory in the Northeast that requires it for comp. majors.

Not at any serious composition school, no. Maybe at the thrown-together composition program of some fourthrate university.

Plus, its not usually a good idea to compose without background on an instrument...and its actually virtually impossible to compose without background in music theory. So the simple answer to your question is no.

I kind of disagree with your post. You just have to have an ear for music and a willingness to learn, not necessarily background on an instrument. Also, I don't see how music theory is necessary. I was composing long before I knew anything about musical theory, I just knew what I liked and what I wanted to hear.

I know my school requires you to be a 7b on your main instrument (performance majors are 8bs) and you have to be piano 8 (which is basically an incoming piano major's level) before you can graduate with a composition degree.

No university I have ever looked into (3-4 dozen) has required you have extensive knowledge in theory before you come in. The purpose of having theory classes as an undergraduate requirement at EVERY college, university, or conservatory (maybe in the world, definitely in the US) is because all you have to present to them is a talent in your area of interest to get accepted. If everyone came in with a founded base of theory knowledge, there'd be no need for schools to spend money offering the lower-level theory classes which are almost always entirely freshman music majors.

Well, nobody mentioned "extensive knowledge". But I can't imagine anyone having an easy time studying composition at an academic institution without being able to read traditionally notated music easily. But I admit, I don't know much about how it all works in the US. In most places in Europe, there isn't such a strict distinction between universities and conservatories - in fact you often can only study music at institutions that are just dedicated to music and maybe other arts, which may however still call themselves "universities". The places around here (Switzerland) where you can study music all have theory tests alongside the practical auditions in order to get accepted, and while you may still get accepted when you fail there if you're an exceptionally talented instrumentalist, that doesn't apply to applicants who want to study composition, conducting, etc.

Obviously you're still going to have music theory classes, but they don't tend to start at the absolute fundamentals. But as I said, it may be different in US colleges/universities, I don't know that.

I'd be surprised if anywhere let you in with little/no background in theory and no instrument. People have argued on this post that it's about willingness to learn etc, but you need to foundations there to begin with, they won't just let anyone in who's willing to learn.

I think it's more important to have a certain level of experience in composition, and a foundation in music theory. In this case, institutes will often disregard whether you play an instrument or not.

1. Take time to learn how to read music (at least one clef). I go to a state school in what Nico has insultingly referred to as a "thrown-together composition program" (I study privately with our theory teacher/electronic music director [ASCAP/BMI/SCI awards recipient] and our artist in residence [ASCAP/BMI/SCI awards recipient]), and the entrance audition for the music dept (regardless of major/vs minor or content area) included music reading and basic theory. You have to learn it. Most guitar majors come in reading very little music, but they can still read it. I know the test for most people coming in to check for note reading was to write out "Mary Had a Little Lamb" and have the student identify the melody without playing/singing it.

2. I facepalm every time I see the phrase "I just write what sounds good". I'm sorry, but unless you have a very well-developed internal sense of pitch and harmony, it's probably not going to sound good. In your case (Your case being the OP) if you consciously can say that you write modally and that you write outside of your implied harmonies, you probably know enough theory to get by. Again, for the average "state school" audition, this will mean writing out a scale, writing a key signature, etc.

3. I don't know how it is for conservatories or the top-rated state schools, but most universities that I've checked out (including the one I attend) didn't start the actual comp track until you've gone through AT LEAST your first year in theory (2 semesters), and in some cases, 4 semesters.

4. Worry about getting into a school's music department first. Learn to read music, learn your scales (for guitar), work on your fingering technique, and learn/memorize a repertoire piece or two. It's easier to get into school than it sounds, and if you can get in as a BA or BFA student, it will be easier to get into a comp program. Again, this doesn't apply if you plan on going to a specialized music academy, but since you don't read music, I'm guessing this isn't the case.

If you don't do conventional harmony or theory, and you don't play an instrument, maybe you should ask yourself what a conventional university has to offer you.

Well I do play guitar and a bit of keyboard but I am not at performance level due to a left hand injury. I don't do conventional harmony and theory but I want to learn it. Most importantly though, I want the time to focus on music, which wont be available working 9-5 at some drudgerous job. If I go to music school I can get a student loan and spend the next 4 years doing nothing but music. It would also be a great place to meat musicians of different backgrounds.

Anyways, judging by the comments in this thread it seems that If i can present a few descent compositions, learn a bit of theory, and polish up on a tune or two I have a half-descent chance to get in somewhere, as long as I'm not picky.

I just want to say thanks to everyone who gave advice in this thread. Your comments will guide me going forward. :)

Opposed to me, I want to get into a music-specific school, so I'm killing myself making sure I know as much music theory as possible. My voice is my instrument, though... but I do need to practice to really get my voice sounding as good as possible.

Hi, I have my heart set on the Peabody Conservatory's composition program. I've written a couple of chamber pieces and am quite proficient on the violin, but I don't know much about keyboard playing or music theory going above violin notation, chords, inversions, and clefs, though I'm trying to teach myself theory. What kind of requirements of keyboard playing/theory knowledge do good conservatories require of their applicants? The Peabody website doesn't really go in depth on that matter besides telling applicants that they need "some keyboard proficiency and ability to pass a theory rudiments test".

Great conservatories require great knowledge of theory, but "passing a theory rudiments test" sounds like it won't be that difficult. I think as long as you can play something like Rondo alla Turca on the piano you should be more than fine.

Nah, keyboard skills requires less than that... especially entering. More like one of the Bach little preludes.