composing VS production

yes, i know they aren't supposed to be against each other, however in today's fine technology and infinite sound banks and synthesizers one can get lost in production and go forgetting all about the core composing, speaking of myself at the very least.

in retro video games, music was very important, because the graphics weren't that good, so the composer had to work very hard on the core of the music, since the technology for the sound was very limited then.

today's standards are much higher, so you could maybe write an amazing piece with fantastic catchy melody that grabbed the spirit of the project-but if its not well produced it would be considered outdated by the market.

then it comes to to just production, just like in movies where you see flashy special effects and no real content, speaking of the video games market again-in current games you hardly remember the melody of the game, since all the composer's energy went to producing it, because when you're shooting thousands of aliens saving the planet with 280W power of graphic engine, you wouldn't need a strong melody-just the special effects that goes with graphics special effects, if you're a gamer then you know what i'm talking about.

its a question to the gamers community of how much "listening space" does a composer have?

i don't know if this exists on movies, from what i've heard it has more freedom, since its alot of symphonics.

so this a dilemma in my opinion, could be just my struggling with understanding the market, so there.

I'm not really sure what you're asking us here...are you confused about the conflict between composing and producing the video game audio field? Are you questioning the freedoms that a game audio composer has versus a film composer?

Clarify a bit, please, and maybe we'll be able to help a bit better.

It's an interesting thing, really. They are not the same thing, though they can be. Regardless, they are inseparable when it comes to placing music in a video game of music--you can't get a composition to work technically without significant production. I don't do video game music, but I've thought of myself as a producer/composer for about a decade now.

I'm not really sure what you're asking us here...are you confused about the conflict between composing and producing the video game audio field? Are you questioning the freedoms that a game audio composer has versus a film composer?

Clarify a bit, please, and maybe we'll be able to help a bit better.

yes and yes.

there would seem to be more freedom in soundtracks for video games in terms of instrumentation and synthesis and sound design and less flexibility in melodic soundtracks, since the listener is not the same listener in the old days where melody was all to it, midi sounds and before 8bit sounds etc.

so it would seem the evolution would go toward producing.

melodic soundtracks dont go well on first person shooter for instance.

not that its a bad thing, i'm just saying this has more to sound design than real composing digging out the essence of sound than of notes.

well like you said, video game composers used to face technical limitations to composition. Those limitations shaped the nature of old school video game music. Back in the day compositions were limited to 4 tones at any one time; 3 voices and 1 percussion. That meant that orchestration and heavy use of harmony were out of the question. Therefore, melodies had to be very strong in order to have a great piece.

As time went on, those old limitations gradually went away, and now anything is possible. Because of that, greater emphases is now placed on aspects of the music other than melody. I also wonder if there may have been a backlash against melody heavy music due to it sounding outdated, which is something that video game designers always seem to be trying to avoid.

One thing that I think limits video game music, in contrast to film music, is the fact that video game music is often required to be looped. That places serious restrictions on the liberties that can be taken with composing the music.

looping is great challenge not the contrary i think-the music is spread much more and must be less focused and clear in terms of melody but clear enough to give the right atmosphere.

It doesn't really matter. If you can get the result you're looking for by either means, then the question is irrelevant.

looping is great challenge not the contrary i think

Yeah, thats what I mean. Getting a piece to loop can be frustrating, especially when you haven't planned for that from the start.

It doesn't really matter. If you can get the result you're looking for by either means, then the question is irrelevant.

if you dont struggle with the question like myself, then yes. i think that going for that particular sound might give a better result if the basis of composition was solid from the start?

like, in c64 days, there was last ninja game, then came the amiga version which totally upgraded the same themes with just better libraries.

on the other hand, sometimes a good synth sound can give alot of inspiration than a blank page...

hard to decide which approach.

I just have to add that most modern music for video games tends to be extremly more cinematic-like. Meaning that not all of the music for games has to be looped.

Take lets say World of Warcraft soundtrack, there is I think 6 or 7 really good songs that last for 3+ minutes and they have a form, they are not for use in game, but on cinematic parts etc. Which is really enough music for a stand-alone album, which many of the companies started selling after the games, and the genre in my opinion is getting increasingly popular and has some very good compositions, some of which would do really good on a concert stage.

I just have to add that most modern music for video games tends to be extremly more cinematic-like. Meaning that not all of the music for games has to be looped.

Take lets say World of Warcraft soundtrack, there is I think 6 or 7 really good songs that last for 3+ minutes and they have a form, they are not for use in game, but on cinematic parts etc. Which is really enough music for a stand-alone album, which many of the companies started selling after the games, and the genre in my opinion is getting increasingly popular and has some very good compositions, some of which would do really good on a concert stage.

That is a good point. And in fact you don't even have to look to cut scenes because allot of games don't even use looped music at all. Just look at the music of Frank Klepaki. There are opportunities to make original music in the modern video game industry, they just aren't everywhere.

Production is the art of making the album come to life. In classical music, the producer in theory is the conductor, which is why they are held in high regard. In pop music, he/she's the one the one they gets the musicians in to do the work and supervises the studio work.

yes, i know they aren't supposed to be against each other, however in today's fine technology and infinite sound banks and synthesizers one can get lost in production and go forgetting all about the core composing, speaking of myself at the very least.

in retro video games, music was very important, because the graphics weren't that good, so the composer had to work very hard on the core of the music, since the technology for the sound was very limited then.

today's standards are much higher, so you could maybe write an amazing piece with fantastic catchy melody that grabbed the spirit of the project-but if its not well produced it would be considered outdated by the market.

then it comes to to just production, just like in movies where you see flashy special effects and no real content, speaking of the video games market again-in current games you hardly remember the melody of the game, since all the composer's energy went to producing it, because when you're shooting thousands of aliens saving the planet with 280W power of graphic engine, you wouldn't need a strong melody-just the special effects that goes with graphics special effects, if you're a gamer then you know what i'm talking about.

its a question to the gamers community of how much "listening space" does a composer have?

i don't know if this exists on movies, from what i've heard it has more freedom, since its alot of symphonics.

so this a dilemma in my opinion, could be just my struggling with understanding the market, so there.

Hello J, I found this is very interesting.

First of all I am a composer, producer and I was big gamer fun when I was younger but now I am more into cinema.

You make a very good points and I think this that you tell for the today's composers that they are focus on production more than composition exists.

Personaly for a NON film-game music I don't realy care the quality of production I don't mean the recording to have coughs and crunching chairs but even I don't care for the ''hollywood sound'' I'm focusing on notes.

But when a music today is for a film I can't imagine a HD movie with crappy sound even if it's a mesterpiece unless the director wanted for some reason.

So I think the role of a contemporay film-game composer is to focus on core composing and then on production let's make the best he can do if he make it alone but if he's working on high budjet film/game I'm sure that there will be a good producer to collaborate with the composer so they can reach what composer want.

Finally I think that both can be coexist to give you an example just see the movie ''The Fountain''.