In need of advice

Hi, this is my first post here and I am very excited to become active in this community! This forum looks very promising and I am hoping it will help me to grow as a composer. :)

On to the point though, I am in need of some advice. I am currently 13 years of age and somewhat new to composition. I'm hoping to eventually acquire a Bachelors of Music degree and major in composition in my university years, but I don't know where to start in preperation. :D I know this may be a vague question, but what should I do to improve as a composer and prepare for applying to a music composition program when the time comes that I am in college?

I'm not exactly the world's greatest piano-aficionado-extraordinaire, but I do have mediocre performance skills, basic knowledge of musical theory, and most importantly the desire and will to improve my abilities and become a proficiant composer through whatever hardships I may face, however far off that may be. I know the basics and am ready to get started composing, but don't have any clue as to what I should do.

Where to begin?

I am low on cash and cannot afford any real programs such as Finale, Sibelius or anything inbetween for that matter. All I have is a keyboard, Finale Notepad, a demo FL Studio and a decent imagination for writing compositions. Is this okay, or do I need better software/hardware in the future? For the time being this is all I have to work with and I'll just have to deal with that, but I still don't know what I should do.

I've tried writing some songs before using the computer, and though they are simple, I think they are not a terribly bad start. The problem is that I write pretty much by ear and some theory, but do not know how to properly write a song with song form and such. I don't know how to utelize the Sonata-Allegro and such in my music and actually, I don't even know what the Sonata-Allegro form is for that matter. Is knowledge of such forms necessary to properly write a suitable classical-piano sounding piece, or should I just continue to, well, wing it? If I do need these forms, where should I learn them? Maybe I should just relax and take this slower, but I'm just confused is all. :(

Writing a "good" piece?

Now I don't expect to be the next Bethoveen or Mozart anytime soon, but I would like to learn how to write a "good" piece at the least. I've listened to songs written by forum members here and have been very impressed, but I do not know how to write these long or extended pieces. How do you guys do that? Do you follow specific forms and musical guidelines I am unaware of, or do you simply make it up as you go and just use your ears to see if it sounds good?

What should I do to eventually write these "good pieces" is my real question. Should I just blindly compose and hope to improve to that point with practice eventually, or should I learn these more indepth musical concepts and forms? I want to write, say, an above avarage classical styled piece. I know this is broad, but what should I do here? :wacko:

What do you suggest I do as a beginner? (My last question)

I know that my questions have been very vague, and I apologize for such a long rant-like-post. I basically just want to know where to start and I'll take things from there I suppose. In other words, what should I do now to write some good orchestrations or piano pieces in the future? Should I just hope things turn out, or do you have any suggestions such as books to read, specific things to learn ect. Is composing something that just happens and is more free-form and by ear, or is there a bunch of important, crucial tricks of the trade I absolutely need to learn?

Anyway, thanks for anyone who answers any of these in advance. I am just unsure of what to do in order to compose, and am needing even the slightest words of guidance. Thanks for reading the questions of a confused teenager and sorry for the long-winded post. :thumbsup:

Before I start posting any compositions, I want to know what you think of these. Are they all right? I posted a few different ones to show I can do more than one style. They aren't great, but I think they are okay.

Also, the Final Fantasy Town Theme is an arrangement, just to let you know. Comments are appreciated, but please don't go too hard on me. :thumbsup:

Beautiful_Memories_v.3__Unfinished_.mid

Back_Home.mid

FF_Town_Theme_Arranged_v.Final.mid

Okay. Point number one. You don't need computer software to compose! Compose by hand. It'll make your compositions better, I promise, because you take more time with each note, so everything becomes more conscious and less aural.

Point two. Start small. You'll work up to big compositions. The reason there are major works here a lot is that they are formulaic (not unoriginal, they just follow a form, which eliminates time spent in having to structure something).

Point three. Don't worry about form at all. Write free-style - find your voice. There are tricks of the trade that you must learn, but you may not always use. For instance, I sometimes write 12-tone serial music. However, I rarely use it in strict serial style. This is because I've learned serialism, and don't like how it turns out, so I've altered it to fit my purposes.

Point four. I would urge you to get out of common practice music in order to write common practice music. Stravinsky, before arriving at his neo-classical idiom, went through a period of intense atonality. Shostakovich went through something very similar. The results of this journey meant that they were able to bring something modern into their classical-styled compositions that increased the interest of their pieces. If you simply write ONLY classical music, you run the risk of becoming unoriginal in your stylistic sound. It's not inevitable, but is certainly a risk. Learn some atonal procedures. Learn modal music! Study Ferneyhough and Xenakis, and yes, study Cage too. At the very least, study Copland and Higdon. Then, when it comes time to write your classical-style piece, you won't be afraid to bring it into the modern era with you.

Thank you very much, I really appreciate the advice! I'll take that to heart and try composing by hand, though it is something I have never tried before. I think the reason I've liked composing on the computer is becuse my piano skills are not to the point where I could actually play any of my faster compositions, but that is what practice is for I suppose. :(

Anyway, thanks again! I'll try to get out of common practice music as you said, and try to be more original and stylized.

The other thing is - don't worry about performance yet. Write what you hear in your head. It'll get you into the practice of writing for things you don't play. For instance, I don't play a string instrument, but I'm writing a string quartet, because I've done practice, and I feel comfortable with techniques for writing those.

I agree with a lot of Christopher's points.

From readin your post, it seems that you feel that composing music is this programmatic experience where every composer knows exactly what to do in every occasion. This is not the case for me, and, I presume, many other compsers. Writing a piece of music is just like writing an essay. You know that you must have some point of introduction, development, and conclusion, but those are just guidelines. YOU get to pick what words for your vocabulary list fill these holes, some of which are unconscious, some of which are manhandled into notation format. This is the same with music.

However, there's a back-end to that. You also must have a good vocabulary to write an outstanding piece. To prepare yourself for gaining a bachelor's, you should definitely look into taking some music theory classes. You learn all of the rules there. Then, after knowing these things, you can tell if you need to follow or break these rules depending on the emotional context of the piece.

BTW, your compositions were lovely for someone who just started composing.

Interesting - your pieces seem to be written in a sort of Liz Story/Suzanne Ciani new-age piano style, not particularly Classical. Given that, if you want to write classical styles, study those styles closely, as well as modern music.

What Calehay says is very true. Writing a piece is like writing an essay. You need to keep a consistent language while keeping a structure as well. You don't always need an intro-development-conclusion structure - but you do need to decide on one before the piece begins.

Thank you both very much. :(

And yes, I don't write classical sounding pieces yet, but that is one of my goals. I've begun listening to more classical music and I'm hoping that it will help me as a composer. I really want to compose in various styles but for the moment classical is my focus if that makes any sense.

Alright, I'll start writing some more and post once my pieces are ready. Thanks again to both of you, I appreciate the sound advice. :)

This advice is all pretty good. I'd disagree with the notion of ignoring form in order to "find your voice." Learning to compose without studying such fundamentals is like trying to write great literature without learning the alphabet first. Some might argue that it depends upon what you want to do with your music, but again I'd disagree. Learn the basics first, thoroughly, then go crazy if you want.

I will add that if the method Christopher espouses was the one he actually followed in his own formation, then it apparently worked for him.

I don't think that IGNORING form is exactly the way to go. However, to learn form at such an early stage runs risks of becoming stuck in form. I'd recommend as a start to work with your own ideas of form, while studying set classical forms at the same time to effectively integrate historical and original practice.

I really want to gain more experience composing for the orchestra, so today I spent a little while writing a quick idea for the orchestra. It's only a few measures, but this is my first attempt and I want to know if it is any good so far.

Will someone please listen to it and tell me what they think? I plan to continue it and make it longer, but I'd like to know if I am even doing this half-decently first. :)

Anyway, here is what I have so far. I was actually going to write this for the opening scene of a game I was helping make on the computer, so that is why it is titled "Opening Theme". Please listen and tell me what you think... :angry:

Opening_Theme.mid

I'll be blatantly honest - it didn't go anywhere. It felt like one chord for 20 seconds.

Now, the reason for this.

Chords can be grouped into categories: tonic, predominant, and dominant. T, P, and D. Now, the idiom you're writing in has a very set pattern of chord categories. The order is: T------P----(-----)D-T. As in, a long tonic prolongation, a shorter (or slightly longer) predominant section, and then a V-I cadence. Your piece goes into a little bit of predominants, but mostly stays in tonic prolongations, making your pattern something like this: T----P----T--P---T. Which doesn't really go anywhere. Add in some motion to your melodic lines. As far as timbre goes, you've got a good sound (or what sounds like a good sound on the MIDI).

I really need to learn some more theory. O_o...

Thank you, I will try to take that into account. In that little section I posted, I was just trying to see if I got the actuall instrumentation down alright. (I've hardly tried composing outside of piano) Or better yet as you put it, the "timbre". :happy:

I'll have to look into my theory book to better wrap my mind around what you said with the chord groupings and cadences, but I think I understand for the most part.

(By the way, that wasn't the actuall song or even a melody for that matter, it was only the intro of the song, I just haven't written past there and wanted to know if I had the okay intrument choice)

As you learn more about the instruments alone, your orchestrations will become much better.

Start here:

http://www.mti.dmu.ac.uk/~ahugill/manual/

There's a compendium of information about seperate instruments. Sadly, their ensemble section leaves much to be desired, but the individual instrument sections are really good (especially the videos!)

Hopes this helps!

Thank you, this is the kind of site I was hoping to find! It looks very informative so far, I'll start reading. Thanks again. :happy:

Well, I have a bit of writers block right now, but I was attempting another piece and I want to know if this sounds any better than the last so far. Forgive me for the rough transition between the piano and the strings, I'm trying to figure out how I can make it more smooth...

Anyway, here is what I have so far. It isn't completed though. (I know, I'm not the best with naming songs. :D)

Sad_Theme.mid

Much better with the chord transitions.

In order to make the strings mesh with the piano, perhaps you could keep the bass strings playing with the bass line of the piano, until a certain point, decided by you?

Yes, I think I'll do something like that. Maybe some slow strings in the Bass would work...

Thank you very much. :D I'm glad to see I am getting slightly better. :D

I wrote a short song this morning and I wanted to know if this is any good. I tried to be a bit more, uh...Formatic (Is that a word) in this one. Please tell me what you think. :) Also, if anyone can think of a better title, please let me know.

Memories.MUS

I'm just curious. How did you write this? Did you sit at the piano, play it, then transcribe it? Or did you write it entirely at the computer? Or perhaps a combination?

I'm guessing mostly at the piano - especially the left hand. Your basic bass pattern is 90% standard pop root inversion chords with the third above the fifth. The right had seems to have been given a little more afterthought at the computer, if not written entirely at the computer. I could be wrong but what makes me think this is that it seems forced against the left hand. It doesn't take advantage of the 'cracks' the way a person composing at the piano piece might hang the notes. It's ok.. but fairly primative for the new age genre. Occasionally your melody is in conflict with your harmony, like at the pickup to measure 9 - or it could be the other way around, - i.e your chord at measure nine arrives awkwardly. - Again I could be wrong about how you did this, but I would suggest that you try writing entirely at the instrument and attempt to break out of your normal left hand molds.

Actually, I composed this entirely at the computer. I just kind of...Wrote it by ear. :) I almost never compose at the piano.

I'll try to edit the things you pointed out and maybe repost it later. I think I might just take it to the piano and edit the right hand a little if that would be better. I think I'll try to change the last chord and extend it too.

Thanks for the advice, I'll try writing entirely at the piano next time. My playing skill is not very good and that has driven me from the piano, but practice makes perfect I suppose. I'll work on a more original left hand too. :D