Question for those who teach composition

I am going to start giving a young high school student composition lessons and I wanted to ask those who have taught before for some advice. Most importantly, two areas that I need help on...

1.) Any suggestions for a basic curriculum? Since I haven't taught before, I am not too sure how to start.

2.) What is the best way to instill that sense of "wonder" and deep excitement towards music? Basically, I don't want to be the one responsible for turning someone off of music, but rather making them want to know more and develop that hunger for it.

Any advice is appreciated.

I mainly teach individuals or small groups so it's rather easy to get to know your audience and then gear your teaching towards what they seem to enjoy.

Ciriculum depends on the country, the college, your superiors, etc. If it's 20th century techniques, then it's that. If it's not then... it's not. :D

I usually start my lessons (the first lesson) with two tracks from Messiaen and Radiohead (you might have seen this in this forum already) which share the same compositional technique and gear the discussion towards the idea that techniques won't limit but help you create what you REALLY want. Depending on where they base interest I go the Radiohead way, or the Messiaen way. At some point I put on Bach, freak them out (because either way Radiohead is "pop" and Messiaen is "contemporary" so no one is expecting Bach) with an excerpt from a fugue he wrote, which really sounds atonal!

Then I take it from there with plenty of examples! I mean composition basically means two things: Techniques (information) and analysis. The wonder part, for me, is providing as much light as possible to have them guessing (and knowing) what the other composers did (the old masters) and why. :)

Best of luck and keep us posted please!

... teaching composition then. Sorry (I differentiate composition from other theoritical subjects such as counterpoint, harmony, orchestration, etc)

I guess teaching composition must be very difficult, definitely not like teaching an instrument,... how you can do it to be impartial, objective, etc....

I could only teach "how do I compose" but not "How you must compose" ... if the student wants to write like me... ok, ... but if not... why should I do such a thing ?

perhaps the very initial matters but the rest... I wouldn't be able to do it right, I'm sure of it...

Luck to you.....hard task.

SYS65: Exactly that is what needs to be avoided and I didn't mention it. The point is not to guide someone in your footsteps, but to provide all impartial and coherent information and education to be able to find their own voice.

Nico: I'm a believer that one needs to make themselves a composer. Nobody can make you a composer. You either have it or you don't (you can learn it, sure; I'm not talking about talent). So, yes I would stop and not teach this extra "something", exactly to avoid providing mashed food straight to the mouth of my students. I've been asked many times the "what would you have done?" and I never reply that. Not in a straight answer anyways.

I don't think any good composition teacher would teach "how you must compose". In many cases also only rarely "how do I compose", unless as examples on the side. The composition lessons I received have almost always focused directly on the pieces I was writing, the compositorial questions I had, the problems that came up for me etc. I think the ability to see things from the perspective of the individual student, while keeping a somewhat critical outside view, is the probably most important quality in a composition teacher - because any composition teacher of today should be aware of the fact that composition is far from a direct, clear thing with objective rules and guidelines.

But apart from that it's been quite different for me depending on the teacher. Some do indeed place a focus on technical aspects and analysis of other pieces (chosen depending on what concerns the orientation of the student most.) Others, such as my present composition teacher, focus more on the abstract ideas that lie behind ones artistic intention. In fact, I have never analysed any other pieces with this professor, nor talked much about technique (except some little advise or remark now and then), but spent the time discussing why I wrote certain things in a certain way, what questions I'm asking myself, what certain constellations within a piece mean to me, how to get more clear in voicing my intentions etc. All my composition teachers so far (well, it was only two regular ones anyways) have always focused everything around the pieces I was just writing, but I know that's not always the case.

But I should shut up, since I haven't actually ever taught composition… :P

One of my personal hardships in composing music is that I've had very little music to compare my own to. So I've been trying to make that up, and hopefully have heard by the end of the summer and developed at least the simplest of opinions on most of the major works for piano, string quartet, orchestra, solo sonatas, trios, this, and that. Tyler knows I keep an in-depth "listening list" of everything I've heard so it's harder for me to forget about what I've exposed myself to. I never listened to music much, let alone classical before I started composing, so I had a limited palette. And now that I'm cramming all this new music, from Brahms to Scriabin, to Beety concertos that I never heard to Cage and Berg and Stockhausen and everything else, I've really been in a musical shell shock and have not been able to concentrate on composing my own music for about a year now. I'll start four measures of some wonderful theme or something and then be at an immediate loss but I have no idea which way to take it anymore since I've been exposing myself to all these possibilities to the point that I don't know what's me anymore.

So my advice to a potential composition teacher is that in the rare case (or common?) you run across someone like me that hasn't actually heard very much music at all that you systematically introduce them to all the classical music out there, that they have a firm grasp on all the major eras and genres and major composers. Else they'll get lost like I have since they didn't know all the possibilities. I used to compose music like an early romantic and I had no idea who Barber or Shostakovich or Bartok were. I have a feeling when I get back to composing I'll be less stuck in the whole neo-classical/romantic idea. Composers need exposure!

I will try to stay away from teaching composition, but I'm sure some day I will have to do it, so I'll keep the eye on the thread (if you don't mind) to see what I learn....

...excuse me if I say something incoherents about the topic,

I have always believe that techniques to develop ideas are the ones can be taught, but if someone does not have a single idea on his mind I'm certainly not the one who will put them in.

The lack of imagination is not a very "curable" issue... is it ?

like those excellent players that can play everything but can't compose a single note, compose or improvise, if there's no score, they're just switched off... why is that ? why can't they just copy something or at least try to create a melody, what in God's name would I have to do if I'd have that kind of student ??? ... tell him, "sorry pal, you just don't work for this" ... when he only probably needs a very simple thing to start up...

Having the knowledge is one thing, and be able to transmit it is something more, some people seem to be just borned to be good teachers....others don't.

Is like those sports trainers.... you see a young racer with an old guy trainer, ... that guy may not be able to run but is able to tell him how to do it, and not precisely because he used to run and he knows how to do it, he probably never was very good running but he is good training.

I'm sure development is the key of composition, and that ... can be taught...

what do you think ?

I usually start my lessons (the first lesson) with two tracks from Messiaen and Radiohead (you might have seen this in this forum already) which share the same compositional technique and gear the discussion towards the idea that techniques won't limit but help you create what you REALLY want. Depending on where they base interest I go the Radiohead way, or the Messiaen way. At some point I put on Bach, freak them out (because either way Radiohead is "pop" and Messiaen is "contemporary" so no one is expecting Bach) with an excerpt from a fugue he wrote, which really sounds atonal!

I'm curious, what Bach piece is that atonal sounding passage from? Also, where can I find your post about the Messiaen and Radiohead similarities?

I don't know where the post is, but the two pieces are "Louange a la eternite de Jesus" or something vaguely like that (I don't know French) and "Just".