Second Species Question

Hello everyone. I'm a newb here, though I've been lurking for some time.

If you'll indulge me, I've just got a quick question about the second species of counterpoint, as I'm working my way through The Study of Counterpoint.

(Click the image for mp3)

So the question is, does this adhere to second species rules? The part I'm mainly concerned about is from measure 8 to 9, where I go from a fifth on the upbeat of 8 to a fifth on the downbeat of 9. Is that okay? If I'm reading the rules correctly, it IS, but only because I'm descending by a fourth or greater (a sixth in this case) before the notes in question. I like the way it sounds, but I'm more concerned with doing it properly than liking the result. For now, anyway.

Thanks in advance.

Firstly, thanks for the reply.

Well, the cantus firmus was provided by the book. I'm just working from it. So I can't feel too responsible for that.

As for the no-step-then-skip rule, I'm not sure I even read about that one. Looking at the examples which are considered correct (in this book), I can see that I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary in that regard. However, now that I do a quick glance at the wikipedia page on the subject before bed, I can see that I have broken some rules. Mainly, these two:

1. If writing two skips in the same direction—something which must be done only rarely—the second must be smaller than the first, and the interval between the first and the third note may not be dissonant.

2. If writing a skip in one direction, it is best to proceed after the skip with motion in the other direction.

But I see that even those two rules are "broken" in the Fux text. What to do?

Thanks.

OK let's clarify -

The starting and ending notes are fine. The key is E phrygian. Tonic is E. IT IS NOT C major. Fux uses Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Mixolydian, and Aeolian modes in his examples but his melodic writing is informed by the harmonic practices developed from the 17th century and early 18th century. So you will find some contradictions due to stylistic differences between Fux and the Renaissance masters..

The parallel 5th you mentioned is ILLEGAL in the species.

If you are keeping to 18th century practice the awkward measures are 1 - 2 and 4 -5. Measure 1 and 2 are especially awkward 2 as you have two consecutive falling fourths only alleviated by the M2 movement from beat 3 msr 1 to beat 1 of msr 2. You don't find this in 16th OR 18th century counterpoint. This problem is magnified by the cantus moving downward by a third in whole notes too. In this instance reversing direction stepwise from beat 3 msr 1 to beat 1 msr 2 would help. Now if you want to imitate 16th century practice then the rules you quoted are to be adhered strictly. So measure 5 and 6 would be foreign to 16th century style because of the consecutive skips and the spelling of a F major triad (and also questionable at least in early 18th century style due to the excessive skips). Also, the cantus firmus only betrays the 16th century style with the skip of a third from msr 4 to msr 5 but this is a necessary indiscretion in order to have an interesting cantus firmus. Yet it is interesting stylistically as Fux basically spells an A minor chord in the first 6 bars.

In sum, your one major mistake is the parallel fifth from msr 8 - 9. Melodically, measures 1 -2 and 5-6 could be much better. For msrs 5 -6 to first beat of msr 7 A - G - A - B- C-D-E is one possibility.

I advise using the search function to read through the extensive counterpoint threads I created in this section. I have topics on 1st and 2nd species and one on melody writing in quarter notes as a prep to 3rd species. Look them over.

Nico - I strongly advise you read Jeppessen's counterpoint text. He offers great insight in the difference between Fux's approach and that of the Renaissance masters.

Hmm, as for steps and skips: The way I learned it was that in upwards motion you can follow a skip with a step, but not vice versa, and in downwards motion you can follow a step with a skip, but not vice versa. In other words, the step must always be the upper one, so the peak is "rounded off".

But then, I never learned that much counterpoint to begin with. Composerorganist is certainly a lot more knowledgeable there.

Gardener - actually that is a great way to remember it. And thank jeppesen, not me ,for his research into the subject. I just go by his book and great comparisons between 16th and 18th century style. Thanks for the compliment.

Nico - you are fine. Counterpoint rules change slowly over time. Melodic motion is a tricky subject - I don't think I have fully understood all of it yet. But when you have motion in half notes the melodic rules become a little less strict. When you have counterpoint in quarter notes against a whole note cantus firmus THEN it gets intricate and the rules you and Gardener mention become much more important.

Hey guys, just wanted to say thank you for the feedback. This is a subject I find very fascinating, so you can be sure I'll be looking more into everything said here.

Hey Eric,

I would recommend the application 'Counterpointer' by the company ars-nova. I was frustrated with not getting my study checked untill I found this little thing.