ty bach Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I'be recently started listening to Wagner and when hearing Parsifal i was struck to find a remarkable resemblence between one theme in prs. and Brahms' intermezzo op.117 no.1. The them i'm referring to can be found on Richard Wagner under the 'opera' then 'parsifal' then 'leitmotives' and it's 'p05' on the prelude list. the intermezzo can be found at Disclaimer - IMSLP/Petrucci Music Library: Free Public Domain Sheet Music I'd really appreciate some comment on whether this is just coincidental or whether it has some musical context. Thanks!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardener Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Hard to say. It may very well be that Brahms had heard Parsifal (I don't know that), so it's not impossible that this influenced him for the Intermezzo. However, the actual similarities are merely a group of four notes. It continues differently after that, the harmonisation is different, and the whole "mood" (in Parsifal, this is a really grave and ceremonial motif, whereas Brahms has it in a light, dolce Andante, in a folk-song like setting). So it may very well be just a coincidence, especially since these particular four notes are in no way a very "special" melodic contour (jump from the fifth to the octave, then walk again downwards to the fifth). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ty bach Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 yes, I can see your point, they're hardly very remarkable to make any other usage of the figure consequential. Although the Parsifal motive does appear in lighter terms (although I'd agree that its hardly of the same strictly 'dolce' tone as the Brahms...although is there much in Parsifal that is purely 'dolce'...!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salemosophy Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I've heard that Brahms did borrow from Wagner a few times, but not in a way that did injustice to Wagner's work. I don't know of any examples (can't think of any off the top of my head at least), but this is not the first time I've heard the question posed. Good question, Ty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Bruckner Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 how dare you!! Hanslick is going to rise above from the grave and write an review about your music to drive you out of the Viennese music scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrcramer Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I love brahms and hate wagner, so my remark is somewhat personal. but no way brahms plagiated this socalled theme. 4 notes down with a upbeat is hardly a theme worthy to copy. By the way, its both part of a larger motiv. So nice find, but no true :) If we are going to share some strange findings: Part 2 of Prokofievs Sinfonia Concertante for cello and orchestra, ms 453 the DSCH-theme; shostakovich autograph. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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