John Cage

Let's liven this section of the forum up a bit. How about Cage's music for Piano. Anybody?

I love the Sonatas and Interludes. Unfortunately I only have an upright piano (evil gravity, doesn't allow me to prepare it) and therefore can't play them, which is not nice.

You don't have an anti-gravity machine? Actually, there's been an idea in the back of my mind to make an upright prepared piano, due to this very reason. I don't really know how to go about it. I could get an interesting array of wire, clothes-pegs and mic stands together...

John Cage is a good man. I've been studying some of his techniques on prepared piano. One that I'm favoring right now would be In the Name of the Holocuast.

Ding Dong the witch is dead

John Cage.... was a bad composer.

Bad? how so?

Pianobeast, that post you made is a prime example of what we don't like to see here in music forums. You can present your opinion, but it's best to back that opinion up. And you should always try to present your opinions in non-objective ways. You just stated something harsh as it was a fact. Care to develop your ideas a little better?

John Cage.... What can I say, the man is unique, and his music are different, I can not argue that his music are bad, because it will be the same to say that Duchamp is not an artist, Art is really anything anyone wants it to be, it's doesn't operate on logic, and I can't disprove or prove anyone as an artist or not, but I dont like John Cage, and I don't think he should be a "composer", he should be called a Philosopher.

I admire the fact that John Cage believed there could be more to music than the standard sounds and principles of notation that most of the Western world has come to embrace. However, with that said, I also believe that for some of his compositions, such as those using entirely random scores in which he leaves no indication as to what each symbol or line means, that he was just trying to make something out of nothing. Had he developed a working system of notation and given principles as to how the music should be performed that was different from our standard staff music (such as guitar Tablature) I would have more respect. However all he did was say here are some random lines, you look at them and make sense of them. That is not composition... that is nothing really - a kid could do that.

Therefore, I respect what he was trying to accomplish, but reject the way he tried to accomplish it.

His piano music? I've never even bothered! ;)

No kid could do that, no kid could understand the philosiphy behind it either.

Well actually, they could scribble lines on a paper, and sad to say it, that is what he did with many of his scores. But again, I'm not trying to insult him here, I admire what he tried to do/make us realise.

Point in case: Fontana Mix

http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/works/fontana-mix/

What I mean, is a kid could scribble down on a piece of paper, sure, but that kid could could never tell a group of musicians to play it.

What I mean, is a kid could scribble down on a piece of paper, sure, but that kid could could never tell a group of musicians to play it.

Odds are no, but the chance that those words come out of his mouth is always there. Even if by random selection, the kid could say, "play it". See, here's how I figure it:

Kids like to play - they are always playing. So the word play is always on there their mind.

Then let's say Mattel comes out with the new toy, "IT". All "it" is is a wonderful action figure, and he happens to love "IT" so much that he takes if everywhere with him.

Now let's introduce crayons into this equation. The kids starts scribbling and creates fontana mix. Next thing you know, play is on his mind and the first thing he thinks about when he plays is "IT". Therefore, he says "play IT".

Now the kicker. It is kids night at the local Symphony, mom forced him to go, so he has all of the above at the symphony. During a random moment of silence, the kid says, "play it" and the conductor takes his scribbles and says, "good idea!".

....could happen.

I hate the hypothetical kid, because he got more of a break than I may ever get.

:unsure: good point... I need to be more optimistic on kids these days.

my iPod has been stolen...all in one day.

I've had my iPod stolen/lost twice in the past. Sigh, this makes me sad.

John Cage was a composer in his own sense: he just wanted everyone to rethink what society has come to define music as, and I think that he did a good job at that. He didn't, however, make us reconsider that the system we currently have isn't the best option available to us.

Although i am not 100% agree with Mr. Canzano' statement, I must say that I am as disgusted by today's music as he is, just look Rap music, I am okay with Jazz, Blues, pop even country, but what the Hell is Rap? it's a ganster dude talking in 99% profanity all the time, how is that a good examples for the teens, no wonder american teens swear so much, one experience that I got from attending americans middle and highschool is that they swear so often, that you have to cover your ears when you walk down the Hallway if u do not wish to be offended, i always try to be an rational person all my life, and try to rationalize everything i see in the world, but this Rap phenomenon I see, is just not making any sense, for example, if the world is logical, they should be listening to classical music, I don't believe that all classical music are boring, personally I have convinced many of my non-classical classmates that Bruckner's 9th sounds cool (scherzo), that taught me that maybe it's because they weren't in touch with alot of classical music, but yet they are constanly being contaminated with that Rap crap all the time(from Tv), this time, I have to say "God Bless America" cause you guys need it.

LOL,

Rap is good. All you are doing is labeling the stereotype statements towards it.

You could do that with anything.

I think many of you guys forget that John Cage did write some normal sounding stuff. Although he is famous for his abstract ideas, he's other works are quite good. Maybe you guys should actually listen to him instead of basing your opinion on what everyone else says.

ok.

I like rap, I like hip hop, and to even say I like bepop.

I like Crumb, I like Adler, I like Part.

I like 21st century, I like the 20th century, I like the 19th century, I like the 18th century I like the 17th century I like the 16th century, I like the 15th century. I do not know much about the 14th.

I like alot of things, I geuss my brain is different... or is it the other way around, my experiences are different.

There you go...

oh, I know that.

I was just making a point, it may be hard to see.

The definment of that statement is is this forum is suppose to be about John Cage's music. It is going into another I don't like this I like this and whoever likes this is a piece of retarded crap.

That is all.

The definment of that statement is is this forum is suppose to be about John Cage's music. It is going into another I don't like this I like this and whoever likes this is a piece of retarded crap.

...I have no idea have this means.

... I don't also not like grammar :(

Now with some action.

http://www.newalbion.com/artists/cagej/autobiog.html

good statement :thumbsup:

On a side note, in the article listed above, Cage talks about Erik Satie being greater than Beehtoven.

John Cage is a bad Composer. In fact, he is not at all a composer. He "writes" for such things as sinks, walls, birds, and, oh yeah....air.

Beg to differ here. Has anyone here ever walked around outside listening to birdsong, and the way it operates as a melodic line or duet over an accompaniment of wind (moving air...) rustling the leaves? Surely that is musical. Every sound has a tone. In many ways the sonorities achieved by natural sound is much more compelling than anything consciously written out.

A steel drum is basically a sink, only with defined pitch values. Children make music on different-sized pots and pans. Saying that Cage's music for sinks and walls isn't music is like saying that orchestra bells and timpani aren't musical because they don't have a defined and clear pitch value (because of the strong overtones).

John Cage's music for prepared piano actually does have pitch content, as well as rhythmic value and clear structure. If your definition of music is that it contains pitch, rhythm, and tone, then accusing Cage of not writing music is ludicrous.

John Cage is a bad Composer. In fact, he is not at all a composer. He "writes" for such things as sinks, walls, birds, and, oh yeah....air. Of course you are all aware of the masterpiece 4'33 containing not a single note. The defenders of this peice state such things as "He is trying to express that the sounds around you can be music, and that in itself is the deep thought of a genius" BULLSH*T! MUSIC HAS NOTES!! GET OVER IT! IT HAS TONES! IT HAS BEAUTY! IT HAS PROGRESSIONS! IT HAS FORM! GET THE F*CK OVER IT! MUSIC TODAY IS ABSOLUTE CRAP. WITH PEOPLE WRITING FOR TAPE RECORDERS, AND A BUNCH OF GANGSTERS TALKING WITH DRUMS IN THE BACKGROUND!! WHY??? WHY DID MUSIC COME TO THIS?? IT'S DISGUSTING! IT'S PITIFUL! IF YOU HAVE NO DISLIKE FOR THIS YOU HAVE NO SOUL!! John Cage is the pinnacle of turd. He was a retard cloaked in an englishman. He was by no means a genius, or a composer, or even a normal person. He thought differenty, so what, so did Schumann? BUT WHEN YOU WRITE SOMETHING WITH SILENCE YOU HAVE TO BE SOMEWHAT INSANE!!

I'm sorry for my outrage. I'm sick, a failed my bio test, and my iPod has been stolen...all in one day.

LOL! Can I mail this to David Rowland? He'll be thrilled :P

Mr. Canzano, has it ever occured to you that maybe that's not what music is supposed to be like?

Does music always have to have to follow a preordained, lawful form? No - John Cage has proven it. Bebop has proven it. Music from all over the world has proven it.

Music does not have to follow one path. You sound like a Music Fundamentalist Preacher, if you get my drift.

I think John Cage is brilliant. I like his music, because he tried something different. I mean, there's so much music out there that sounds the same - look at the baroque string quartets, school big band music, or hip-hop. They all follow the same rhythms, same beats.

And then came along came Haydn, Beethoven, Berlioz, Mahler, then along came Benny Goodman, then along came Dizzy Gillespie, then along came Dream Theatre, the Sugar Hill Gang, and John Cage.

Where's your sense of adventure? Do you really want your music to sound the same as others?

I think its brilliant, the prepared piano concept.

Music is not about notes, music is not about form, music is not about Common Practice harmonies. Music is about people, about society and art. Music is a magical art, and everyone is a conjurer with different spells in their book.

I used to be like you, Canzano, in bad mouthing hip hop. But people like it. People of that culture enjoy listening to that kind of music, because they can relate to it. They enjoy the beat's, which are basically a digitized deja-vu of old African tribal beats. Hip hop music is perhaps ironically the African-American genre that is most like it's ancestors. They are the modern talking drums.

And what's really so wrong about singing about "Gangsta's and hoes." It's basically just lingo. People have always been singing about warriors and maidens, but its just a different term. I respect hip hop.

Same thing with techno music. Techno best represents the culture of the fast paced urbanites, in a technological world, just as much as prim and proper violincellos and oboes best represented the court of Louis the XIV.

When you concider "pop music" as mere entertainment, with little artistic value, don't forget that all of those sonatinas and concertinis and whatever were meant for the "mere entertainment" of Catherine the Great's balls.

Jazz music originally represented the Roaring Twenties, a time of unkempt prosperity, new ideas, and fun. As the decades have continues, jazz in its many forms is a hotbead for new ideas.

Beethoven was just as revolutionary. His music drove Vienna bananas. Imagine a populace who never heard such excitement in their music before, such unruffled drama!

Now, don't give me this scraggy that because you've listened to so much music of John Cage that you can badmouth him. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that the music of the world is coming to an end. Hell no.

Written notes is a purely western phenomenon. People have been expressing themselves musically throughout the world WITHOUT notes for THOUSANDS OF YEARS, as you probably know. Maybe it's your notion that "music is made up notes, introduction and development, etc." that's wrong.

Go and listen to some Ravi Shankar, or Inuit throat singing, or a digereedoo, or a balalaika, or something, and tell me that that's not music.

Go listen to muddy waters and tell me that he has no soul.

If Eminem has no soul, then why are his songs so full of emotion? Maybe not pleasant emotions, but emotions nonetheless.

JESUS H. CHRIST MAN! OPEN YOUR HEART TO THE MUSIC THAT'S OUT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!