Lessons with MatePL!

Ok! Post your stuff and I will show you what you can do to get better.

Hi, thanks for accepting my request ;)

Sorry for all additional references in pdf's, but it helps me in doing this stuff.

counterpoint - 1.pdf

cadences - 1.0.pdf

cadences - 1.1.pdf

IN regards to your counterpoint exercises:

Your first species is quite good! No criticism there.

Starting at Measure 12:

18-19 You have an octave moving to a dissonance. IN early counterpoint and in all strictly classical music, if you can avoid it... don't approach a dissonance by a skip. The problem with measure 19 is that haven't prepared the dissonance. Preparation means you include ONE of the dissonant tones of measure 19 in measure 18. ALSO, you did not resolve the dissonance, which you must do in measure 20... but you didn't.

May I suggest looking at Shoenberg's Counterpoint lessons? They are free on Sribd. They should help you understand what I am saying.

In measure 27... you put the wrong interval... it should be a minor 3rd.

Measure 27-

You prepared your dissonance, but you did not resolve it. The B and F should resolve to C and E. They MUST resolve this way. Going from 27-28 is parallel motion.. which is forbidden.

The dissonance at the end of species 2 is fine! You prepared and resolved the 9-1 suspension. :)

Your cadences... they are voiced badly. NEVER double the 3rd of the chord. Try the first one again.

SAME with the second one.. DON'T DOUBLE THE THIRD.

The 3rd, it's better.. but you have a parallel fifth between the Alto and Bass voice. Fix that.

IN GENERAL, your four part harmony is bad. You have WAYYYY too many skips. Try to keep it stepwise or oblique.

So, you have some work to do.

Thx for this.

Actual I'm on the way to correct all previous excersises and now I'm reading this book by Schoenberg 'Preliminary Excersises in Counterpoint' and I will probably have many questions about this, because there still is some problem in understanding...

For instance: page 9, $5 "The student will write his excersises for voices and he will write them in the old clefs". And then there is some larger speech about clefs and their importance. What does it mean? Should I write my counterpoint excersises in C clef? Is that of importance?

Oh! No. It is not important. Disregard that. Always ask if you have a question about it. The book was written a while back when it WAS important. But, nowadays, it isn't.

I am glad you are reading it! Clefs are not important. What is important: Do your exercises in many different KEYS. That will heighten your use of the notes and mastery of ALL music.

Ok, I attach fixed counterpoint exercises and cadences. I marked the places where I did some changes.

COUNTERPOINT:

Q1. I have some problem about preparing and resolving of dissonances in 2nd species. I understand so much: to prepare a dissonance I need to use one note of that dissonance in the previous measure, but what about resolving?

Q2. In that book by Schoenberg I read about 'compound dissonant leaps' (p. 6, $7 c) to e) ). Does it deal with first species, too? It's problem to understand, because the author explain it without using a second voice. Could you explain it to me using some example?

Q3. Schoenberg: 'horn octaves and horn fifths' (p. 10, $8) - is this of importance on this level?

There is some trouble about reading any examples in this book, because the author uses these different clefs and.. not so good ;)

CADENCES:

In major cadences I tried to eliminate double 3rds and parallel fifth.

In minor cadences I eliminated one double 3rd.

In both I tried to add oblique motion.

counterpoint - 1.1.pdf

cadences - 1.0.1.pdf

cadences - 1.1.1.pdf

IN measure 19, try changing the bottom F to a B. You should get rid of parallel motion.

IN measures 29, change the F to an A. Therefore it is a chromatic motion, and you resolve fine.

:)

No... your cadences cannot have crossed voicing. In the first and second one... you have the Alto voice going above the soprano, do you see that? You are getting better... PLEASE try to just redo them again and THIS time: try making the motion as STEPWISE as possible. Your second to last one on the first page is the best.

The second page is good excepting the crossed voicing. Keep studying on cadences and give me the your revisions.

Ok, I improved these Counterpoint exercises. Then I actually wrote the cadences all new.

COUNTERPOINT:

- In measure 19 I didn't want to have this B, because now I have 3 identical minor thirds consisting of b and d

CADENCES:

Actually this exercise was about making Perfect Cadences, but I didn't realise that the chords V and I in Perfect Cadence should be in root position, am I right? It makes it more logical now.

So.. I made these cadences one more time from the very beginning.

Question 1. Could you explain to me once more, what are the rules about preparing and resolving dissonances?

Q2. (from above)

Q3. (from above)

Q4. I'm not sure whether I understand how to build a chord in four part harmony. The position (root or inverted) depends only on bass note? Is the rest of notes-order unlimited(of no importance)? (excluding double 3rd)

Q5. What do I have to do if I want to write a counterpoint to the same CF as the first one by matt.kaner, but in another key? Change key signature and put all notes in the same direction and interval as the root note?

counterpoint - 1.2.pdf

cadences - 1.0.2.pdf

cadences - 1.1.2.pdf

Q1: Ok... So to prepare dissonance, you put the dissonant note in the chord before.. for instance: in the key of C Major, you could do a IV-I(sus4)-I. In Counterpoint, say you have an A then a G then another G. To prepare the dissonance, you would put an F in your counterpoint (outlining a IV chord), then HOLD the F While the A Moves to G. At this point the F resolves to the E. You resolve by removing tension. What you did from 25-26 was perfect! The F to B was prepared and resolved. Good job! Try some more 2nd Species counterpoint before moving to 3rd.

PERFECT! Your first page of cadences has NO issues. Good job. To build a chord in four part harmony, there are doubling rules... they are:

From V-I

Double the root of each chord

Root of V moves to root of I or i in the bass.

Always keep the common tone (if you have a common tone, hold it over with a tie)

Leading tone moves to scale degree one (this is if you are doing a V7-I progression)

Scale degree two moves to scale degree three.

this stands for Dr. ALS (if you want to remember it that way).

I will teach you the others as you attempt different cadences. But for now, attempt to commit these doubling rules to memory.

Your 2nd page was awesome as well. EXCEPT, your last progression was wrong. There is a parallel 4th in the Tenor and Bass. I suggest changing the Alto voice to a 7th degree (making a V7) and resolving it to the 3rd degree to a "d". At this point, move ALL other voices to "B". This provides contrary motion, gets rid of parallel motion. And another thing... omitting the 5th is okay. It is widely accepted. And tripling the root is never a bad idea. And in this case, that is the best resolution.

COUNTERPOINT:

I completely understand your example of preparing and resolving this dissonance, but... for instance:

- measure 25-26 - diminished 5th (B, F) - has to be resolved exactly this way -> (C, E) - I do not see any relationship with this principle from your example ... Is that any rule that a tritone (with leading note) has to be resolved in way: leading note to scale degree one, and another note in contrary motion?

- measure 28 - I do not see this rule, either ;/

Sorry for being obtrusive about these dissonances, but I think its important, even at the level of second species counterpoint.

CADENCES:

Question about these doubling rules. Are they so strict? I mean.. there is this rule about doubling the root of each chord (V - I progression). My Gmaj cadence has no double g in root chord. Is there something incorrect?

And my last progression. Do you mean this progression in Bmin? I can't recognize parallel 4th there.

The rules ONLY applies to a tritone, yes. But, it should ALWAYS happen that when a tritone is in the outline of a dominant V chord (say... V7-I is what I outlined in my example)

28... you are fine cause it's no tritone.

Cadences:

NO. They are not... but if you follow them, you can never go wrong. Yours are FINE. Sometimes going out on a limb is the way to go.

And from the b minor progression... You forget your A has to have a SHARP beside it. Therefore, you technically DON'T have parallel 4ths, now that I look... BUT, think about it... you have a third of the chord, it needs to resolve to the tonic. The 5 wants to resolve to the tonic... and so does the 2nd degree. Which is why you have to triple the root.

Ok, there are some things I don't understand, but I hope it will get clearer on some another example.

So.. I changed this last cadence, now it seems to be fine.

I prepared two another second species counterpoint to get more familiar with this counterpoint-level. In both cases the Cantus Firmus is not by me.

What should I do next? Direction 3rd species counterpoint or something else?

cadences - 1.1.3.pdf

counterpoint - 2.0.pdf

Perfect cadences! You are fine on V-I cadences. :)

You should probably move on to Plagal or deceptive, or even half cadences now.

Countepoint:

FIRST EXAMPLE:

In measure three, you CANNOT have direct motion into perfect consonance. Try again.

Measure 8 to 9 is incorrect. You cannot have a third move to a fifth by similar movement.

Measure 9-10 is ALSO wrong, for two reasons. In your counterpoint, you will notice that you have an F-B. This is incorrect because you CANNOT outline a tritone melodically. It's forbidden in Species Counterpoint. You ALSO did not resolve the Major 7th. The dissonance from a Major 7th should be resolved either by oblique motion, by keeping your note the same... OR it can be resolved by contrasting motion to make a perfect 5th. Both are allowed. Doing this would solve both of your problems.

ONE MORE NOTE: In Fux's counterpoint, we are taught that if the end of the Cantus Firmus is on the tonic, then we MUST finish the composition with a V-I cadence. You have a vi-I (which is fine), but I suggest form now on resolving the phrase with V-I, to be safe in counterpoint.

SECOND EXAMPLE:

You were right when you said you weren't sure. You cannot resolve your tritone correctly because of the Cantus Firmus. Try and work around it. :)

Although a 10th is frowned upon, since we like to keep the voices ALL within an octave, or ALL out of an octave, you are fine in second species with two voices to occasionally drift out of the octave.

NOTE: Refrain from Augmented/Diminished 2nds/3rds. The only one that is COMPLETELY forbidden is the Augmented 2nd. But, usually we try and stay away from those.

From here, I suggest fixing the problems with these exercises, then after me approving your changes, go on to the 3rd Species. A reminder, PLEASE do your exercises in ALL KEYS. Refrain from using just c major. Try Bb Major, Eb Major, D Major, A Major, E Major... go up to at LEAST 5 sharps/flats.

COUNTERPOINT:

Ok, I tried to fix all faults.

I didn't know I should be careful about the intervals within one voice. Is that true? I thought I have only to care about intervals between two voices. So..to get sure: Q5. Within one voice you have to use melodic intervals and between voices(cantus firmus and counterpoint) you have to use harmonic intervals?

Sorry.. ;)

Q6. Are there some rules about resolving of concrete dissonances? For example resolving major 7th occurs only by oblique motion or contrasting motion(making p. fifth) and nothing else?

Next I will prepare some first species in other than c major key, some 2nd species and hopfully try to go with some 3rd species, but today I don't afford.

CADENCES:

I tried some plagal cadence.

counterpoint - 2.1.pdf

cadences - 2.0.0.pdf

cadences - 2.1.0.pdf

1st: Good job fixing it!

2nd: Looks good! I saw no problems with this one either.

1st cadence: In the last cadence... try again. Let's see some closer harmony. You have the Sop and Altos more than an octave apart. Usually that's frowned upon.

2nd cadence: I think I failed to answer this question earlier... ONLY if the first chord is in an inversion may the resolution be in an inversion. So, fix the first one. You may NOT omit the 3rd.

There are no STRICT rules about resolving dissonances. It is mostly about using your ear and HEARING where the dissonance wants to go. You have to learn to audiate (the process of hearing melodies in your head) pluralistically. A Major 7th is USUALLY going to want to resolve to a perfect 5th. The reason? Well think about how the people who invented dissonance/music thought: How can we make this sound good? Well resolve it to a consonant chord! But how?

And they just tried and tried until they found something that worked. Remember, all of the strict rules of Classical Music are in place so that you can KNOW when to break the rules "intelligently". Mozart broke some rules... beethoven broke some rules... EVERY romantic composer broke the rules... It's just a matter of knowing HOW to do it. And, you KNOW how to do it because you've practiced the right way long enough to know when an alternative sounds better. :)

To answer your first question... YES. But they only thing you cannot do is have an interval LARGER THAN A 5th, or a tritone. Those are the only restrictions.

Thx.

I'm in minor cadences. What do you mean by 'inversion' in this case? Do you think about omitting a 3rd? Can I call it inversion(omitting the 3rd)?

Edit: Ok, I just read about doubling http://www.choraleguide.com/vl-doubling.php and now I think it is clear

So, in which cases can I omit 3rd?

Thx.

I'm in minor cadences. What do you mean by 'inversion' in this case? Do you think about omitting a 3rd? Can I call it inversion(omitting the 3rd)?

Edit: Ok, I just read about doubling Tom Pankhurst's ChoraleGUIDE - Voice-leading: Doubling and now I think it is clear

So, in which cases can I omit 3rd?

it's usually a bad idea to omit the 3rd. Because it identifies what the chord is.

So far only cadences.

CADENCES:

Q7. Do I have to use only chords in root position or could there be inversions, too?

Because I used only root positions I tried to have doubled root in every chord (due these rules from this site from above). BUT.. eg. in my Cmin and Cmaj cadences I had to double the fifth. Is that fault or just little breaking the rules? ;)

BTW. sorry, I couldn't upload these files as usual

cadences - 2.0.1.pdf - Cadences in Major

cadences - 2.1.1.pdf - Cadences in Minor

+ another counterpoint

counterpoint - 3.0.pdf

Minor Cadences:

You've doubled the third in the first one. Move the Bass down to the root.

All the rest of your cadences are wonderful! And yes, bending the rules JUST a bit is quite fine. ;)

Your species counterpoint is good EXCEPT for your very last measures. Your second to last measure outlines a Tritone in the alto voice. Look at that again.

Hey there! Anything else for me to look at? I will give this another week, but I have other students to help if I can. So I am gonna open this slot up if you don't have anything else to show me by: September 19th.