Great troll or Greatest troll?

musoc.org home: music, society, music society

A few excerpts:

I think it's ok to hold these opinions despite how extreme they seem, but to "regulate" what music people can listen to is outright ludicrous. Though, I highly doubt any of this will ever enact, pop music is enjoyed by the majority of earth's population if ya didn't know... ;)

Though I wonder if this were to occur, would it be beneficial?

Hell no, banning any type of music is downright retarded. And, besides, do you think anyone would seriously adhere to it? If they ban rock, I'd still play my goddamn guitar as loud as I want even if I have to go underground to do it.

They're retarded. Their criteria for art music is retarded. The site is laid out retarded.

'Classical music' according to this usage is what musoc.org refers to always as 'art music'. Apart from the fact that this avoids the misleading or disparaging connotations of 'classical', Art Music, as a slightly wider term, covers the 'classical' traditions of other (especially non-Western) societies, including, in many cases, a society's folk music heritage.

I might be having a seizure.

One is a posturing, experimental, spuriously anti-bourgeois avant-garde determined to turn its back on music history — this is Postmodernism, an umbrella term for a cornucopia of flimsy 'musics' — minimalism, aleatoric/intuitive 'music', noise, 'quiet', amplified music, 'musique concr

Great troll, perhaps not the latter.

Great troll, perhaps not the latter.

Arguable, but you have to show me then a bigger troll!

Wow. Terrible site. They're entitled to their (awful) opinion but of course it will never happen and no one should even want it to actually happen (maybe in theory, but not in practice).

Oh yeah, well.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Troll_cows_ill_jnl_artlibre.png

Face it people, it's the truth! Finally someone is doing something against these despicable philistines who soil our proud musical heritage with their electric guitars!

That is worse than ANYTHING John (Max Caldwell) could come up with... haha.

Ah, and now we have a winner for the 'biggest douche in the universe' award. Bravo!

Okay, so there's this idea that 'Classical' music holds a superior intellectual quality to 'Pop'/'Avant Garde' music. In a few instances, I can see this being the case - and I've argued as much before - when someone creates an 8 second work consisting of one 12 tone row and calls it a masterpiece next to my 10 minute opus of complex melodic, harmonic, and formal development, yeah, I can say with confidence that I invested more 'intellectually' than my counterpart.

But this website advocates an extreme, general view I don't agree with at all... especially considering the extensive list of composers in the 20th and 21st Centuries who have defied the 'intellectual Classicist' (like the creator of this website) with perfectly outstanding music. The pendulum swings both ways. I suppose the Classicist author of this site would prefer to group all the styles of 20th Century music into one 'Popular Music' genre... good luck with that, buddy!

when someone creates an 8 second work consisting of one 12 tone row and calls it a masterpiece next to my 10 minute opus of complex melodic, harmonic, and formal development, yeah, I can say with confidence that I invested more 'intellectually' than my counterpart.

You leave my precious Webern alone, you bully. :angry:

I agree with Gardener. Our society is perverted and is shows in secular contemporary music.

Bach said Music should be to the Glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. Contemporary music might be refreshing, but it doesn't glorify God. Rarely anyway.

LONG LIVE "CLASSICAL" MUSIC!

Uh oh.

Uh oh.

We'd better run and hide... I'll see you guys in CANADA!!! *runs away* :P

Nahh, but seriously... I have never seen a more opinionated site... it's like political parties but with music.. hahah.

I agree with Gardener. Our society is perverted and is shows in secular contemporary music.

Bach said Music should be to the Glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. Contemporary music might be refreshing, but it doesn't glorify God. Rarely anyway.

LONG LIVE "CLASSICAL" MUSIC!

I can't actually tell if you're joking.

I can't actually tell if you're joking.

He put quotes around "classical"... I can only assume he's kidding. I can just FEEL the sarcasm dripping from this thread. ;)

Music is a sin. You're all going to hell.

I agree with Gardener. Our society is perverted and is shows in secular contemporary music.

Bach said Music should be to the Glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. Contemporary music might be refreshing, but it doesn't glorify God. Rarely anyway.

LONG LIVE "CLASSICAL" MUSIC!

...Gardener was being sarcastic.

He put quotes around "classical"... I can only assume he's kidding. I can just FEEL the sarcasm dripping from this thread.

He's not joking - he's not smart enough to joke.

The interval between the decay of the old and the formation and establishment of the new, constitutes a period of transition, which must always necessarily be one of uncertainty, confusion, error, and wild and fierce fanaticism. - John Calhoun (quoted from The Condition of Postmodernity by David Harvey).

I obviously disagree with the conclusions of the website, but in today's society with today's art and music, ideologies like this are perfectly normal. I don't worry too much about them, time will prove them wrong anyways.

As a sidenote, the biggest (if not only) intellecual mistake they make is generalisation. They make good points, that shouldn't be ignored. 'Visuals' (appearance, image, antics, venues) are generally more important than content or any (posited) musical talent. For example...

They make other very bad points.

I agree with Gardener. Our society is perverted and is shows in secular contemporary music.

Bach said Music should be to the Glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. Contemporary music might be refreshing, but it doesn't glorify God. Rarely anyway.

LONG LIVE "CLASSICAL" MUSIC!

..........

.................

.........................GTFO

I said that some of YC shared the opinions of that site. Take that as you will, I think it's hilarious and sad at the same time.

Likewise, the mistakes that site makes are not only generalization, but complete logical fallacies and misinformation. He's pushing opinion as fact which is intellectually dishonest by default, as well as trying to ban music he happens not to like. It's a bunch of scraggy.

I didn't say it was the only intellectual fault, and you're absolutely right about them pushing opinion as fact, though most of the time they only push as fact what they (probably) honestly believe to be fact. Which makes it more an ideological fault than an intellectual one, in my book. So it's arguable. I'd like to know specifically what you mean with "misinformation", if you aren't using it as a synonym to "pushing opinion as fact", which it isn't.

So yes, I'm playing devil's advocate, but I would describe it as partly scraggy with a dash of sour grapes, instead of total scraggy.

Fair enough. I do like what they say about clapping though. I think that the point of going to a concert is to hear the music, not to hear people clapping mid-piece or in between movements. That just puts me off even if I don't REALLY mind so much.

Ah, and now we have a winner for the 'biggest douche in the universe' award. Bravo!

Okay, so there's this idea that 'Classical' music holds a superior intellectual quality to 'Pop'/'Avant Garde' music. In a few instances, I can see this being the case - and I've argued as much before - when someone creates an 8 second work consisting of one 12 tone row and calls it a masterpiece next to my 10 minute opus of complex melodic, harmonic, and formal development, yeah, I can say with confidence that I invested more 'intellectually' than my counterpart.

you can probably say very little with much confidence, and this is not one of those things. Someone could spend days or years on these 8 seconds and the piece could be spectacularly much more interesting than your 10 minutes, even if you spent just as much time. The reverse is also true, that your piece can be better. But to make an objective claim that 8 seconds of music is better or worse than 10 minutes is in err. I much rather listen to the first 8 seconds of beethoven's 5th (to be very cliche and straighforward) than listen again or in full to most of the 3-5 minute works on here of which sometimes I've experienced less than 8 seconds.

Originally Posted by Pieter Smal V

I agree with Gardener. Our society is perverted and is shows in secular contemporary music.

Bach said Music should be to the Glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. Contemporary music might be refreshing, but it doesn't glorify God. Rarely anyway.

LONG LIVE "CLASSICAL" MUSIC!

1) God doesn't exist, neither does the soul.

and

2) babies who have been raised listening only to contemporary music and not bach would believe, (if musico-religiously oriented like bach) just the opposite.