Correct piano notation?

Anyone know any online references or databases for correct notation practices? Or books? I'm trying to perfect this PIANO SCORE. Is there a better forum for this question?

I appreciate any information, links, technical or aesthetic corrections...

From Bar 44 onward I would play the third beat with only the right hand (remove the connection with the left hand).

It seems good! The notation is good and so... don't sweat it! Just post it with a MIDI under "Piano works" at the forum and it would be much appreciated!

PS :)

I would recommend changing some of your 32nd notes that lead into another measure into grace notes. All those dotted notes looks kinda sloppy in my opinion. Other than that it looks fine.

Edit: Upon further looking, some of your slurs don't make sense either.

Gardner Read's books on notation are very clear.

Some of your beaming doesn't make much sense to me.

I would recommend changing some of your 32nd notes that lead into another measure into grace notes. All those dotted notes looks kinda sloppy in my opinion. Other than that it looks fine.

Edit: Upon further looking, some of your slurs don't make sense either.

Can you give me an example of a measure with those slurs? What would you do instead?

Gardner Read's books on notation are very clear.

Some of your beaming doesn't make much sense to me.

Can you give me an example of the beaming? What would you do instead?

From Bar 44 onward I would play the third beat with only the right hand (remove the connection with the left hand).

It seems good! The notation is good and so... don't sweat it! Just post it with a MIDI under "Piano works" at the forum and it would be much appreciated!

PS :)

Wonderful, thank you for the suggestion.

For example in measure 9, your F is slurred to the 16th note C, why not just slur it to the quarter note C. The same applies for measure 6, 10-12, 28-36, 74-75, 87-88. They are easy fixes though.

For example in measure 9, your F is slurred to the 16th note C, why not just slur it to the quarter note C. The same applies for measure 6, 10-12, 28-36, 74-75, 87-88. They are easy fixes though.

Ah I see what you're saying. I appreciate you taking the time. It actually is correct for slurs/phrase marks to encompass tied notes completely.

For example in measure 9, your F is slurred to the 16th note C, why not just slur it to the quarter note C. The same applies for measure 6, 10-12, 28-36, 74-75, 87-88. They are easy fixes though.

No, this would be incorrect. You always draw slurs to the last of a set of tied-over notes.

One notational question I've always wondered about is the notation of tenuto marks in tied-over notes. These are commonly notated (like you did it) on the first of this set of tied-over notes. However, to me it would make a lot more sense writing them on the last note of such a set, since the tenuto mark (like the staccato mark) is primarily about duration and not something like dynamics (like an accent). A tenuto mark means "hold this note", but this is only a relevant information on the last of a set of tied-over notes, since the first one is obviously held anyways to the second. Nobody would write a staccato on the first note of a set of tied notes, but strangely tenuto marks are usually notated like this. I never really understood this…

Some other details:

In the 7/8, I'd try to clearly consider what kind of grouping you want and make it clear with your beaming. Especially since your tempo is given in quarter beats = 115, which suggests some basic quarter-grouping with one "odd beat" (such as 2+2+3). If you really want no specific grouping, I guess you can leave it as it is, since it is pretty readable, but it would add a bit of comfort to see some clear pattern.

I'm not exactly sure how you mean the "sempre pedale" in bar 9. First of all I think "sempre con pedale" makes more sense than "sempre pedale". But I'm also not sure what you actually want. Do you really mean to have the pedal pressed down all the time? Since that's how it sounds. If you do -not- want that, I'd rather write "pedale ad lib." or just "con pedale".

The "both-handed" notes in bar 44 onwards seem fine to me. It would be obvious to any pianist only to play those notes with one hand, but the way you notated it shows how the voices are meant. I also don't find it necessary to change the 32th notes to grace notes, unless you really don't mind how fast they are to be played.

I'd also generally advise against the "legato" instructions, since it's not always clear what you mean exactly. In bar 9 onwards for example, the right hand is already written with slurs and in the left hand you can't really play legato in the first place, since you're repeating notes. If it's just a very soft play you want, write something like dolce. Or write a portato, which makes sense for such repeating patterns (i.e. slurs with dots over the notes). But generally, it's much clearer when you use slurs than just verbal remarks like "legato". This also applies to measure 78. Here, every note has either a slur or a tenuto mark in the first place, so what do you mean by having "legato" on top of that? What do you specifically want the pianist to do with this instruction?

In measure 87 and 89, I'd use sixtuplets instead of triplets, which keeps the quarter beats more visible. Or at least always connect a pair of triplets with a single (eigth-) beam.

In measure 89, the pauses in the left hand are much to high up. Move them to the same level as your other pauses of the top voice of the left hand.

Finally, you may consider some purely aesthetic things: Consider using a slightly different font for title and your name (or just play with slightly different sizes, boldness, italics, whatever). Not something fancy, but just something slightly different, to get a more individual look, which immediately makes it look a bit more "professional". And write a dot after the "P" of "P Hanson". And personally I'd pull the page numbers a bit higher, so they aren't so close to the measure numbers.

One final thing one should always think a bit about in scores is page turning. In this case it's not a huge issue since you can generally easily fit four pages on the note stand of a piano, but if you can faciliate page turning by moving some measures between pages a bit, do it.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing: In the 4/8 measure (measure 61), don't fill it with a whole-note rest, even if it's technically allowable. A half-note rest seems clearer to me.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing: In the 4/8 measure (measure 61), don't fill it with a whole-note rest, even if it's technically allowable. A half-note rest seems clearer to me.

If a bar is empty, a whole rest is the clearest and most correct notation.

I second that!

Hmm, all right, in that case feel free to disregard my advice.

Personally I've seen both practices often and for me it matters a lot on the circumstances which I prefer. If the measures are long, or have complex time signatures I prefer whole-note rests in empty measures too. If on the other hand there are fairly short measures (say, a 1/8 bar) or there are many time signature changes, I prefer the rests in the actual durations of the bars for clarity. So even if you miss a time signature change by quickly glancing over it, the different rest immediately catches your eye. The most important thing if of course that you stay consistent within the piece, so sometimes you'll have to make compromises.

Thank you Gardener

I ran into a book called "The Interpretation of Piano Music" by Mary Venable discussing Beethoven's use of sempre Pedale. In short, its function is equivalent to Pedale ad lib. However, I agree that con Pedale is a clearer choice, and more common according my personal collection of music.

I will especially consider changing the 4/8 full bar rest into two distinct quarter rests because it truly is two beats I want to communicate. I suppose now the decision is between being technically correct and interpretationally correct.

The tenuto markings are indeed functioning as emphases, but I think if I choose to keep them I'll need to find and cite music that uses them in such a way first.

Thank you very much for your comments. I will consider them carefully.

No, this would be incorrect. You always draw slurs to the last of a set of tied-over notes.

One notational question I've always wondered about is the notation of tenuto marks in tied-over notes. These are commonly notated (like you did it) on the first of this set of tied-over notes. However, to me it would make a lot more sense writing them on the last note of such a set, since the tenuto mark (like the staccato mark) is primarily about duration and not something like dynamics (like an accent). A tenuto mark means "hold this note", but this is only a relevant information on the last of a set of tied-over notes, since the first one is obviously held anyways to the second. Nobody would write a staccato on the first note of a set of tied notes, but strangely tenuto marks are usually notated like this. I never really understood this…

Some other details:

In the 7/8, I'd try to clearly consider what kind of grouping you want and make it clear with your beaming. Especially since your tempo is given in quarter beats = 115, which suggests some basic quarter-grouping with one "odd beat" (such as 2+2+3). If you really want no specific grouping, I guess you can leave it as it is, since it is pretty readable, but it would add a bit of comfort to see some clear pattern.

I'm not exactly sure how you mean the "sempre pedale" in bar 9. First of all I think "sempre con pedale" makes more sense than "sempre pedale". But I'm also not sure what you actually want. Do you really mean to have the pedal pressed down all the time? Since that's how it sounds. If you do -not- want that, I'd rather write "pedale ad lib." or just "con pedale".

The "both-handed" notes in bar 44 onwards seem fine to me. It would be obvious to any pianist only to play those notes with one hand, but the way you notated it shows how the voices are meant. I also don't find it necessary to change the 32th notes to grace notes, unless you really don't mind how fast they are to be played.

I'd also generally advise against the "legato" instructions, since it's not always clear what you mean exactly. In bar 9 onwards for example, the right hand is already written with slurs and in the left hand you can't really play legato in the first place, since you're repeating notes. If it's just a very soft play you want, write something like dolce. Or write a portato, which makes sense for such repeating patterns (i.e. slurs with dots over the notes). But generally, it's much clearer when you use slurs than just verbal remarks like "legato". This also applies to measure 78. Here, every note has either a slur or a tenuto mark in the first place, so what do you mean by having "legato" on top of that? What do you specifically want the pianist to do with this instruction?

In measure 87 and 89, I'd use sixtuplets instead of triplets, which keeps the quarter beats more visible. Or at least always connect a pair of triplets with a single (eigth-) beam.

In measure 89, the pauses in the left hand are much to high up. Move them to the same level as your other pauses of the top voice of the left hand.

Finally, you may consider some purely aesthetic things: Consider using a slightly different font for title and your name (or just play with slightly different sizes, boldness, italics, whatever). Not something fancy, but just something slightly different, to get a more individual look, which immediately makes it look a bit more "professional". And write a dot after the "P" of "P Hanson". And personally I'd pull the page numbers a bit higher, so they aren't so close to the measure numbers.

One final thing one should always think a bit about in scores is page turning. In this case it's not a huge issue since you can generally easily fit four pages on the note stand of a piano, but if you can faciliate page turning by moving some measures between pages a bit, do it.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing: In the 4/8 measure (measure 61), don't fill it with a whole-note rest, even if it's technically allowable. A half-note rest seems clearer to me.

well the automatic whole-rest putted by software is wrong in my opinion, I don't change those in orchestral scores because there are too many to waste your time in that, but the silence bar must be written with a proper rest, .... bars like 3/4 with a whole-note rest a wrong, I think we have just used to that. But when I wrote in paper (by hand) I always used to write the correct rest, no matter if is a 13/8 ....

All that is limpness of the softwares.....

Nah, the practice of writing full rests for full measures of any length (or at least of any length of 1/4 or longer) is much older than notation software.

I can really see the advantages of both practices, but for me it mostly comes down to what role measures/time signatures have in your piece. But personally I tend to go more for "spelt out" rests.

is much older than notation software.

Really, didn't know.....well I prefer the "exact" mode