Lessons with CheeseLord

Hehe, the main thing at the moment is that is there any chance that you could give some feedback and comments for the first 35 seconds or so?? I've been listening to it a lot, so I can't really comment on it myself from a non-biased point of view at the moment.

Thanks!!

Hope I'm not too late with my review - busy week, as usual...

I can't really say a lot about the creative content of this track due to its length, but I'm always available for a review, if you extend this track unto a point where I clearly see the progression and unfolding of your ideas. However, for this short scope, this phrase definitely works and sounds great.

The exterior of this work would certainly profit from a nice but subtle reverb. In my opinion the cymbals are too loud and they kind of distort this smooth atmosphere - you might as well look for another sample that should have a longer release, maybe a ride cymbal instead of a crash that also brings some lower frequencies. If you continue to work with sustained strings I would suggest to sustain them just a little longer, but this can also be achieved by a well-tuned reverb. The dynamics are fine - overall this is an excellent base to continue and I'd love to see how you go on with it. Keep it up!

Hi....I'm back again!!

I haven't been up to much composing. However, I got some time since Sunday to continue. I've completely redone the section after the cymbal roll after attempting to incorporate your feedback. Find the most recent version here: http://www.box.net/shared/hdpaxz9r91

Are there still any outstanding issues/nitpicks you notice at the present? I've listened to it so many times now that I'm not sure whether it's just me or whether it actually is a problem :mellow:

Again, I like what you did. Still, there is not a lot to complain about from my side, instead that this piece is somewhat short, but after all this is nothing that urgently needs to be changed.

What is it that bothers you about your work here? Is there anything you can name?

Well, to be honest, I think that a couple of main problems that I tend to notice up to this point are....

1. The transition from the first section to the second. I tend to think that the orchestration seems a little too thick compared to the first. Is that something you'd agree with, or is that me imagining things??

2. Do you think that sometimes the violin soundfont are a bit synthy?? I will sometimes notice a note that sounds a bit like from a General MIDI bank. In your opinion, should I change the patch of one of the violins, or is it just me again??

Overall, I'd like to think that it sounds OK. However, there always seems to be something that prevents this going from just a OK sounding composition, but a good quality composition. I don't actually the samples are to blame here either - but I can't really put my finger on the reason for why it feels like this :( . Again, some feedback on this matter would be much appreciated.

Thanks a lot!!! :)

1. The transition from the first section to the second. I tend to think that the orchestration seems a little too thick compared to the first. Is that something you'd agree with, or is that me imagining things??

I can imagine what you mean, but I wouldn't just agree to that, nor do I think that you are imagining things. Assuming that this work is meant for a soundtrack, then the orchestration might be too thick, but given it the right background, it might also be a great representation of something. You see, this aspect is strongly related to your initial motivation of your work. What is your intention about this piece? Do you have a fictional area or happening that is being depicted by this track of yours? Then only you could answer your question, unless you think that this is a matter of mere sound quality.

I also see that this is connected to your second question:

2. Do you think that sometimes the violin soundfont are a bit synthy?? I will sometimes notice a note that sounds a bit like from a General MIDI bank. In your opinion, should I change the patch of one of the violins, or is it just me again??

There are, of course, soundfonts of higher quality than this one, but I guess the main thing to argue about is that the violin comes into the foreground too much and you already have one instrument playing the leading role here, but they barely fuse well. Simply reducing the overall volume of the violin might not be the right thing to do, but there are ways to make it step back a little.

The idea of changing the soundfont might also make you achieve nice results and I think that you should try that, if you don't feel too happy about the current soundfont. I generally don't use freeware soundfonts for stringed instruments, because I was never satisfied with the representation of a real violin for example due to the lack of adjustable playing methods and meticulous details of a sustained note - and I notice that with your soundfont as well - but that goes mostly for solo strings. Ensembles can become quite exciting with the right soundfont.

But your soundfont is not that bad, at least I didn't think of a synth, when I listened to your piece the first few times.

Now that we are talking about that, I would like to know more about your original intention of this piece.

*Time to write a story* xD

As dawn breaks, the fields are hidden by a white blanket. Silence reigns, and all is tranquil. Even now, the fields lies undisturbed, with only the trees' bare branches jutting out from under the snow. As you walk on, you reach a river, frozen in the night. The icicles gather on the shrubs, glinting off the sun. The peaceful scene that you observe soothes you, lulled by the absence of noise, for the countryside holds no noise, and for a while at least, you escape the rush and noise of metropolitan cities.

You stumble into a small village. There, you see some parents, mostly holding their child by the hand, wandering about. You see a couple of them exchanging seasonal greetings, smiling to each other. The village is picturesque, like a scene off a Christmas card, for the are lots of little houses and cottages, each topped by a hat of snow.

At the moment, that's sorta what I envision for the part I have shown you, any comments?? Also, I'll go soundfont hunting today...... :)

Ahh, how apt!

The chinese flute puts my imagination into the asian area almost in an instant - that's all I have for a comment, since I was somehow expecting to read a tiny hint towards the eastern countries. I don't really get a christmas-like feeling when listening to your piece, but to me this is a rather good fact:]

Anyway, a nice little text to suit your work - I really like this!

Is there anything else you want to discuss about this piece of yours?

Thanks Tuskle!!

I've pretty much finished the interlude now, so once again, any probs?? Find it here: http://www.box.net/shared/hdpaxz9r91

I've changed the violin soundfont to something sounding a little more natural - comments are welcome :) Once again, any problems/crits???

Well, you have already heard my critiques. If you are looking for more diverse reviews on this one, there is a section where you can post this and encourage more people to give you some feedback. At least there was a section of this forum where soundtrack compositions and incomplete works belonged to - maybe you should look for it.

The new soundfont is okay, but I still miss what I could expect from a real string ensemble, but that are high demands on a freeware soundfont. In the end, you should decide which one of them belongs to this composition.

Hi Tuskle :)

It's been a while since I was around, so first of all, are you still available for this lesson thread??

If so, I've been working on and off. Here's one recent one: http://www.box.net/shared/u1zpu4ino4 However, I've been forced to stop work - the folder the data file was in got permenantly deleted in a cleanup, and I couldn't find it with Restoration :(

I've continued my work in Siege of Laurelmor and Percussion, which has cumulated in this: http://www.box.net/shared/b7pca97506

Enjoy :phones:

Oh yeah.....check out this: http://free.sf2.com Set up by the Battle for Wesnoth Music Devs, they're all pretty high quality, so check it out!!

Hey Cheese mister.

Sorry to hear that...

At this time I'm quite busy with several projects of mine, but we can go on with this thread. But if we do, it would be good to have something like a topic to talk about. I like your latest works, but we shouldn't only focus on reviews and critique within this thread.

Umm this free.sf2 site doesn't really show what it's supposed to. Can you check again?

Hi:

You never know, you might want Gucci Shoes :rolleyes: ....Any, sry about that link - this one should be right: http://freesf2.com/ Also, I don't know whether you've heard of the EWQL Starter Edition, fill out a survey for a selection of instruments from EWQL here: http://www.soundsonline.com/free-orchestra

And as for a topic to talk about, I was thinking of methods of continuation. I've have bumped into this problem severla times, when there's a really awesome start, but then it soon putters out, and sounds, well....quite lame really. Are there any particular tricks or something that you know on being able to carry on a nice start effectively??

BTW, sry if it's a little hard to understand. :)

Here's your lesson: Refer to this work http://forum.youngcomposers.com/t23588/das-schlechte-der-welt/page__p__332392__fromsearch__1entry332392

I'll have this setting: We're in a small city, famous for its forest. It's said that up to 300 different kinds of birds live within this colorful forest - next to it, the people lived a life very close to nature, but there was some growing unrest the last weeks. Two parts of groups formed the political conduct of this city - the high council and the common politicians. The members of the high council were by far the most frugal people in town and they spent most of their time within the forest - they were only a small, but well-organized group of old people, capable of making very wise and farsighted decisions. The politicians were the leaders in charge of the more conventional and usual happenings in town, the common city lifestyle and they were part of it - newly elected every few years. Here's your story...

0:00 Many people had a wealthy but also frugal life and they regularly visited the city's forest while paying a massive amount of respect to nature. The last few days, the politicians had changed due to a change of government and the townsfolk was unsettled a little, which was only natural.

0:32 The new leaders had a different kind of motivation than their predecessors and they seemed obsessed by something that did not really fit into this city's feelings. Without even discussing this with the high council, they ordered that parts of the forest should be destroyed, so that the city could extend.

0:51 Machines started to tear down trees and the trees were brought into the city, so that they could gain valuable ressources. People have never been this respectless for more than a hundred years...

1:27 The high council watched the happening with a very sad look. They were in contact with the collective consciousness of the nature and they felt a deep grief and as this change continues, almost half of all the birds lost their home. Some of them merely died while some others tried to escape this scene, but many of them were not able to find another appropriate forest to live on and only a few of the ones that escaped survived.

2:24 The remaining birds returned and simply tried to settle within the newly build parts of the city. While most of the townsfolk didn't realize that a drastic change was going on, there were others who felt that this city was changing and they were forced into a life they didn't really appreciate. The city grew as the forest was diminished even more.

2:59 The high council watched the city as it grew bigger and more bustling with every day. It might have looked like their hands were tied, but for some reason, the high council did not feel like that at all.

3:34 Within only a short period the city was covered in smog and the high council knew that this is not a state that this city could bear, neither the poeple nor the forest. It was time for another, even bigger change...

4:05 The city was a dark place already, but this time the sky was even darker than it ever used to be. Strange winds suddenly came up and while the city was covered in a dark space the winds grew stronger every second. Very soon, tornados appeared almost out of nowhere and began to unleash their might within the city. Houses got destroyed, vehicles were spinned around in the air and the people were merely exposed to this unbelievable force. Vast amounts of the city have been leveled and not many survived the ordeal.

5:09 This devastating day has ended and the tornados were gone, but the strong winds remained as if they wanted to let somebody know that they could come back any time. The tornados have left a place of pure destruction and almost no survivor had a place to live anymore. This time, every member of the high council decided to go to the city and they found that most of the politicians are still alive, although badly wounded and overly desperate. The leading politician was rescued by one of the council's members and he could not understand a thing. The politician looked into a face of eternal wisdom and he could not find the least little hint of hatred or anger in the councilor's eyes. At this time, the politician realized that there was a force that caused this tornados, but neither hatred not any kind of malice was the cause for this to happen - it was merely a consequence, but certainly no coincidence. Now, even the politician realized, that they could not make this city what they wanted it to be - this very special city had its own role and consciousness and both were heavily connected to the forest.

6:13 From that day on, both the high council and the politicians worked together again and they were very eager to make room for the forest again. Not much of the fallen city has been rebuilt and the smog grew smaller every day. Still, the winds were unusually strong since this very decisive day and they shall remind everyone of the townsfolk, as well as everyone of the current and upcoming politicians, that this city can only continue to exist, if the forest will exist, as well.

Hi :happy:

Now what's this about, you may ask. Let me explain only one thing I consider important here: You asked for something that is part of the creational process of music, but I don't think that anybody is able to describe what you have asked for while using words one could understand - to say the least, I consider this a very very individual thing. I guess there are 'tricks' to allow for progression, but I am nobody who will ever teach static and stiff rules, so I will show you another way.

Get inspired by the things you appreciate, be it music or anything else. There is not much you have to keep in mind, so I guess you can simply continue the way you did before.

If someone is looking for rules, I have no doubts that they could be found, but if someone is looking for answers, I also have no doubts that they could be found...

Now say Cheeeeesseeee :D

Thanks a lot!!! I'll get started on this as soon as I've finished the stuff for the February competition :)

Don't get me wrong, but I don't expect you to "do" anything particular - referring to our current topic.

Also, writing short stories is something that suits me and my works (you know, there are lots of works out there that suit other things than stories), but this doesn't mean that you'll have to do so, too. You might profit from doing so, but it could also be that dancing or buying cheese is what suits you and your compositions - or maybe you solely compose, who knows?

I also liked to connect works with stories or background settings, since you have asked for lessons of soundtrack composition.

If you want to find out more about your styles with progression, you might want to try well-proven standards of progression such as:

1) An overall constant setting with progression only on specific instruments or elements (melody for example)

2) A constant build up with a pithy finish

3) A constant progression that thouroughly sticks to a varying main theme

4) A varying progression that leaves the main theme and picks it up later again

5) A varying progression with multiple themes and multiple styles or a free progression

I tried to find a few examples:

1) http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/braid-soundtrack/07.m3u

2) Al di Meola - Black Pearls** but you can listen to Zona Desperata*, has a nice build up around 2:00 to 4:00

3) Will send you one of my works

4) hmm, there ought to be many, but I currently can't think of one... Maybe Bach's Toccada in D minor

5) Al di Meola - Vertigo Shadow (mostly a free progression)* or Jordan Rudess - Quantum Soup (multiple everything)*

There are a lot of works that always refer to two or more different main 'themes' and work with changes between these parts, such as Al di Meola - Passion, Grace and Fire* or this one (brilliant, if youd ask me) http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/braid-soundtrack/02.m3u

Also, a lot of works combine several aspects I mentioned, such as the Hungarian Rhapsody no.2*

* Those can be found on grooveshark.com

** No idea where to find it on the webnet

Hi Tuskle :)

Work has started. I've decided to only keep roughly to the story you've set above. Here's the link: http://www.box.net/shared/jqglee052g

I've also listened to a couple of examples, and I'm going to go with 4) A varying progression that leaves the main theme and picks it up later again. And another thing - I'm entering the section at 0:51, when there are machines. I'd like to try to recreate a effect such the

at around 0:31 with the drums. I know that this is another *how did they do that* question, but I was wondering whether you could enlighten me for that :)

Thanks in advance :)