High School and Conservatories

Okay, I'm sorry for being so confusing. Next time I won't include a big story leading up to why I am asking what I am.

I am asking two things:

1. What are some good conservatories here in the USA, or just good music colleges for that matter.

2. Is it a good idea to go to a few of these conservatories and audition for them (as a junior in HS), to a) get my name out there and b) hopefully get accepted into one of these conservatories/colleges one day?

Thanks for your time,

Mathieu.

:huh:

Sooo....the logic goes thus:

1. You want to drop out because you're not motivated even though you are perfectly able to finish high school. (Those classes you say are pointless are anything but. Once you get in the real world you'll realize this.)

2. In lieu of high school, you want to go to a conservatory with a 3% chance of getting that big orchestra position. (Sometimes going to a conservatory without a high school diploma isn't even possible. They still are *colleges* which give *degrees*.)

Ummm.....yeah.

My thoughts are that you shouldn't do anything rash. Audition, see how that goes, if they'll accept you, and if they do and you feel that it's the right decision, go for it.

The things you do in highschool may not be directly relevant to life, but the diploma itself is. In any event, just keep in mind that if you go down a one-way street in life, there's no turning back, so be sure you're fully aware of the consequences and prepared to face them.

Follow your dreams though, for sure. Just don't do so blindly. :thumbsup:

Oh, right, my advice.

Tough it up, stop whining, and finish high school. The diploma is worth all the suffering in the world. THEN worry about being the next Judith LeClair.

Question myself though... WHEN one DOES finish High School.. where should one look in terms of Conservatories. I have heard good and bad things. :)

Finish high school.

Unless you know for sure you are a child prodigy stay in school.

When a school looks at a transcript and they see high school drop out or GED, red flags pop up in their mind and they flag you as a risk. They dont know if you had a good reason to drop out (and after reading what you wrote you dont), instead they will think that if they admit you that you might just drop out of their school. That is true for every school, conservatory or not, you will apply to.

They are not just looking for good musicians, they are looking for musicians that can grow, and a GED or a high school drop out does not show promise of that.

Second, if you can not find the motivation now in high school to at least have some pride and self respect in your own school work now, do not expect it to all come magically to you when/if you get in to a conservatory. A HUGE misconception with young musicians about music schools is that because it is all music it will all be fun and easy, its not. The work will get harder and you will have to study even more then now. And you might not believe me, but the study habits you have developed in high school now will carry over into how you study music. If you cant keep up with the work with what you call "easy work" then how will you ever keep up with music work.

Its great that you want to go to a conservatory and there are some pre-college schools with in them, however, your grades and study habits now will not help you get into any of them. They need more from you than just really good musical talent.

Yeah... Indiana has this thing called a core curriculum.... Over a year's worth of non-music classes.

Good God..

There are a lot of people that think they're freaking amazing and prodigies and whatever.

And then they get to conservatories.

And realize that they aren't.

I would suggest that you suck it up and get through school. If you don't, good luck.

Nah drop out. Life's hard, hide from it.

I must agree with most folks on here.

get your HS diploma. Imagine if the musical career falls though, you're just another high school dropout... good luck finding work as anything better than "counter-clerk" at McDonalds.

Don't cut yourself short just because you're lazy.

Leaving away the already mentioned practical considerations for now:

Most composers I know have a fairly wide education. Some I know have diplomas in areas such as chemistry, history, philosophy, mathematics, law, and others simply choose to educate themselves on as many levels as possible. That doesn't mean of course that they all directly apply this knowledge to composition. For some it's just a means to earn their money, for some just an "additional interest", but it all helps to avoid becoming a close-minded specialist who can only approach matters from a single perspective.

Maybe it can work out to some degree for a performer (but even then I'd not recommend it), but I think as a contemporary composer such a unilateral approach is rarely helpful. To attain some "understanding" of the vast variety of music that exists out there today (which I find a good thing to aim for, even if you will never succeed) and in order to add something to the musical repertoire that is in some way exciting and hasn't been heard a million times before, I think it is crucial that a composer approaches music from many different perspectives, even some that might appear "unmusical" at first. Because sooner or later one will probably realize that there's next to nothing one can't relate to music in some way and which can't enrich ones creation of music in unforseen and highly individual ways.

Oh, sure, you may not need every single math formula, historical date and French grammar rule you learned in school when composing. But it can sometimes be surprising how certain things suddenly -do- become important again - I really didn't anticipate the amount of math that has become useful to me in composition and I now wish I knew a bit more in this respect. And in any case, if not the actual details, the mindsets behind different academic and non-academic fields of knowledge are the really important things to learn. The mindset of a historian, of a philosopher, of a physicist, of a linguist, or, if you will, of a plumber. A composer who manages to approach composition from such different angles at the same time has my highest admiration - and I find it often tends to show in some way in her or his compositions.

Sure, the issue with performers is also to some degree that it seems important in many cases to be on a very high level of ability very early in order to succeed, make a career as a soloist or get a good position in an orchestra or whatever. It's not as extreme as in the sports, but it's there, and of course this leads to the somewhat justified desire to specialise as early as possible and as strongly as possible, even if that means neglecting quite a few other valuable things.

Luckily it isn't so extreme for composers. You can still become a successful composer even if you haven't composed anything until 50. And today this applies much more so than in past centuries. Many composers today didn't choose the most direct path to a "career as a composer", and often it actually did them good, in my opinion. So I don't think there's a need to hurry too much there.

Look, the most important work you do to promote your composition career will have NOTHING to do with composing. It will be:

1) Researching the right places to send your CV and talk to people

2) Attending concerts and be able to talk outside music to the composer, his wife or husband who is not a musician and would appreciate someone who can talk about something else beside Schenkerian analysis, aleatory procedures .... plus there is this golden rule of etiquette anyway after a performance of a work - DON'T go overboard into musical things. The composer is exhausted but invigorated and oftentimes is hearing the piece anew and really just wants to relax with friends and family or go home and chill with their significant other (or alone) and catch up on missed episodes of 24 after being totally immersed in performance and composition for several days or weeks. So an ability to converse on topics aside from music is a boon!

3) Writing letters and being able to understand social issues and other technologies to gain commissions outside typical music organizations. The reality is that you really limit yourself if you just look for commissions from string quartet groups or the Bruckner Musical Societies in the Andirondack Region of NY State.

4) Preparing a budget (actually something they don't teach except in a few business clubs)

5) Also, you need to know a little calculus and advanced algebra to understand acoustics and some field of electronic music. Linguistics too open up compositional possibilities which non-musical studies support immensely.

Finally, many many people come to conservatories with an inflated assessment of their musical abilities - Flint is correct that too often in this society "good enough" is considered "fantastic" and "gifted" at least in the US. Think of this - In New York City I have met many musicians trained in the former USSR or Russia and their musical training starts in schools at 5! About the age of 8 - 10 they sift out the precocious ones and start them on the equivalent of theory/aural skills equivalent to many US undergrad programs. So unless you are going to Curtis at 10, Juilliard Prep at that age and you are on an accelerated track - underestimate how you would place in an audition to a conservatory and prepare to overcome this. So, what I'd do is talk to one of the IU professors and either do an informal audition with him/her or one of their students. Do this with your performance and composition - and be sure to ask them to be as frank as possible.

Now conservatories I'd recommend?

Indiana U is good but I have heard you have to be careful what classes you take from whom.

Oberlin Conservatory is very good but expensive

Eastman, New England Conservatory Peabody are all good schools.

State Schools - I know CUNY in NYC has some good schools and USC out in California also. Not always on par with the above but good.

U of Mich also very good.

There are other schools that are strong in specific areas ( a great example is William Paterson College in new jersey - great jazz school but everything else is mediocre at best)

PS Don't knock McDonald's - at least it offers a pathway to get Managerial experience and thereby a way toward a job which would fund your undergrad degree. i talso has a great charity - McDonald's House for the terminally ill. Does Walmart, Home Depot, Costco or your local Piggly Wiggly do these things?

Yeah, I had a similar question. I think I'm fairly good and being a hobo (1st in state, whoo!) so I was thinking of dropping out of high school and applying directly for hobo school now. I'm pretty sure I can get decent scholarship money basically anywhere. Thoughts?

Here's a little story from my recently finished days in undergrad...

I never did All State. I did everything else except that, for whatever reason.

Then I got to college and there were a couple of these hot shot freshmen in my studio who were like, "YEAH BRO, I did All State", and they wore their gay little All State 2002 shirts. I beat all of them in chair placements for the whole of my undergraduate career...actually that's not true, because both of them dropped out by our sophomore year.

The moral of the story: All State means Sh**

In fact, I've just had manuscript paper and composed in class all day, my teachers never say anything, it just looks like I'm taking notes.

So you're lazy AND you disrespect your teachers, well that's just peachy :-\.

Right now I really don't feel motivated whatsoever to try hard in pointless classes such as physics, algebra and A+ (computer classes).

If you don't see the purpose and relevance of physics, algebra and computer classes then you're a lost cause :'(. Besides, if you're as smart as your purport yourself to be, why would you even need to try hard? Algebra is pretty easy, anyone with a decent amount of intelligence could coast their way through it. In fact, any smart kid can coast through high school and still get As and Bs...

Chances are you're gonna wind up working some sort of office job (if you get lucky) after you finish college at whatever point, and they kind of like it when you know how to use Microsoft Office, just sayin'.

That's a good thing by the way, if you went to school in, say, New York, and you got some sort of sweet internship with Schirmer or somebody, those are good connections to have. Don't deny yourself of the opportunity to develop PROFITABLE SKILLS because you want to play Weber *decently* and have your heads in the clouds.

Hillary Hahn, for example, auditioned and got into Curtis at the age of 10, and Charlie Parker (which was completely different) dropped out of high school to practice 12 hours a day.

Kid, I honestly doubt you're on the level of Hilary Hahn or Charlie Parker...I mean......seriously?

"Well Bird did it, why can't I!?!?"

[rant]

Before I go on, I'd just like to thank the baby boomers for making their kids think more of themselves than they really are. We are not all snowflakes, we are not all precious f-ing jewels who can become *anything we want*. Gee golly, if I think hard enough, I can become President of Russia, nevermind I have a 2.1 GPA and I'd rather be ignorant than try to enlighten myself, I'm a snowflake GIMME GIMME GIMME I'm entitled to a Curtis edumacation dag nabbit!

BTW, chances are the guy who's going to become President or principal of the New York Phil is already 10 years ahead of you in everything remotely relevant. Better start practicing, or you can get your head out of the clouds and start being realistic maybe?

[rant over]

Gardener hit on some REALLY good points, as did most everyone else in this thread. The last thing anyone wants or needs is another dumb musician, especially a classical musician (nothing twists the grapes of serious collegiate music students more than the dumb performance majors who WHIIIINE in every class. Yes, you're going to do things besides practice your 5,000 year old Schubert concerto that no one cares about. You're gonna work in libraries and do math and actually use your brain, welcome to real life). It really would behoove you to learn as much as possible. I don't know what those things might be, but find your own way and make yourself into something.

everything I am learning in High School I will never use for the rest of my life,

If you'd come to see Mexican Education System, you wouldn't complain, you would commit suicide .

I really super-hate all kind of schools here, that's why I'm a superb self-taught in everything, .... Playing instruments, Composing, learning new software, devices, learning languages, ...

whatever you want to learn, figure it out by yourself, ... I never sit and wait to be told how to do it.

I remember a phrase Harrison Ford says to Anne Heche in "Six days seven Nights" ....

"here's an Island babe, whatever you don't bring, you won't find it"

Here's a little story from my recently finished days in undergrad...

I never did All State. I did everything else except that, for whatever reason.

Then I got to college and there were a couple of these hot shot freshmen in my studio who were like, "YEAH BRO, I did All State", and they wore their gay little All State 2002 shirts. I beat all of them in chair placements for the whole of my undergraduate career...actually that's not true, because both of them dropped out by our sophomore year.

The moral of the story: All State means Sh**

as does GSA and GSM? or having 7 different college profs come to your high school just to meet you and want to hear you play for them and offer you a scholarship for their college? or being invited to play with professionals while everyone had to audition just to hope to get in? as does everything else i've accomplished? okay, so anyway....

If you don't see the purpose and relevance of physics, algebra and computer classes then you're a lost cause :'(. Besides, if you're as smart as your purport yourself to be, why would you even need to try hard? Algebra is pretty easy, anyone with a decent amount of intelligence could coast their way through it. In fact, any smart kid can coast through high school and still get As and Bs...

Actually, in algebra I have a B, in physics i have a C+ (it will be a B once my test grades are entered) and in A+ I have an A.... so yes I do breeze through high school, I'm just very bored with it.

Chances are you're gonna wind up working some sort of office job (if you get lucky) after you finish college at whatever point, and they kind of like it when you know how to use Microsoft Office, just sayin'.

First off, Microsoft can suck my dick for all I care, and then go burn in a hole. Second off, I am very computer savvy, my dad is a computer guy and I'll end up teaching HIM some things (pertaining to things he doesn't normally use, such as Excel and Word).

Third of all, once again, I'm not stupid, and when I say my grades are slippin I mean going from a 4.0 to a 3.7.

Kid, I honestly doubt you're on the level of Hilary Hahn or Charlie Parker...I mean......seriously?

"Well Bird did it, why can't I!?!?"

Yeah, I honestly doubt it too, when (please, point it out for me) did I ever say "I'm at the level of Hilary Hahn or Charlie Parker, so I think I should be like Hilary and go audition at curtis since I'm 16, already 6 years later than Hilary, I should be fine."

Or anything along those lines? when? PLEASE if I ever did, PLEASE I beg of you to point it out. I only said "for EXAMPLE: blah blah blah"

Never once did I state that I was better or as good as Hilary, I only said that it has been done before with child prodigies, and if I was even half as good maybe I could get into one before I get too old. Thats it. Nothing more.

[rant]

Before I go on, I'd just like to thank the baby boomers for making their kids think more of themselves than they really are. We are not all snowflakes, we are not all precious f-ing jewels who can become *anything we want*. Gee golly, if I think hard enough, I can become President of Russia, nevermind I have a 2.1 GPA and I'd rather be ignorant than try to enlighten myself, I'm a snowflake GIMME GIMME GIMME I'm entitled to a Curtis edumacation dag nabbit!

Actually, I was brought up on the belief that you have to work for anything you get. its not like I just was handed anything I accomplished, such as all-state, or GSA or GSM, or anything else for that matter. Even my car, my parents didn't buy me one, I had to save up for it... I mean granted it was only 6 grand but the point is I didn't just say "GIMME GIMME GIMME I'm entitled to [fill in the blank]!!"

BTW, chances are the guy who's going to become President or principal of the New York Phil is already 10 years ahead of you in everything remotely relevant. Better start practicing, or you can get your head out of the clouds and start being realistic maybe?

[rant over]

sure, I'll get right on that.

If you'd come to see Mexican Education System, you wouldn't complain, you would commit suicide .

I really super-hate all kind of schools here, that's why I'm a superb self-taught in everything, .... Playing instruments, Composing, learning new software, devices, learning languages, ...

whatever you want to learn, figure it out by yourself, ... I never sit and wait to be told how to do it.

I remember a phrase Harrison Ford says to Anne Heche in "Six days seven Nights" ....

"here's an Island babe, whatever you don't bring, you won't find it"

I usually am one to figure stuff out on my own. Once again, i'm not lazy (well, I am, but...) i just get bored easily, and school is one of those things that I am getting very bored with and AM ONLY ASKING ABOUT CONVSERVATORIES AND NOT WEATHER OR NOT I SHOULD DROP OUT OF HIGHSCHOOL FOR F***S SAKE!

Good points from everyone.

I'll just add that you should think CAREFULLY about whether you really want to go to a conservatory or whether a liberal arts college is a better fit for you.

When I left highschool I was sure I wanted to be a scientist. When I realized that music is wonderful, it was lucky for me I was going to a LAC that not only let me take a double major but gave me opportunities to compose and perform. If had gone to, say, Berkeley, I would have been screwed.

In that respect LAC's are a very good choice for people who "know what they want to do" because statistics show more than 50% of us end up being wrong.

You may think you know what you want to do with your life at age 18 but the Age 23 You may disagree vehemently. Don't piss him off :P

Oberlin. It has an EASILY transferable program. If you are SERIOUSLY considering conservatory, and I assume you are, I know that Oberlin ALSO has an Arts and Sciences program (yes, it's a music conservatory, but their Arts and Sciences is also highly respected).

I think Compie addressed this issue clearly and said everything I want to say.

I just want to add that even if you are brilliant and highly skilled (ignoring the exceptional cases), you won't succeed if you cannot communicate well. If this whole issue is mainly caused by your lack of communication skills, maybe paying attention in high school might behoove you a bit more than you believe. I would also like to warn you that becoming lazy in things that don't interest you or you don't believe is relevant is a dangerous slope. 90% of life consist of things that are not interesting and bore me to tears, but they have to get done! If you want to succeed then you have to try as hard as you can in everything you can. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time. You're already in school, might as well learn something! If it's to easy, nothing stops you from making it difficult! My mama used to tell me that "If you think you're great at something, then you aint really trying that hard."

as does GSA and GSM? or having 7 different college profs come to your high school just to meet you and want to hear you play for them and offer you a scholarship for their college? or being invited to play with professionals while everyone had to audition just to hope to get in? as does everything else i've accomplished? okay, so anyway....

Lol. In New York that may have been impressive, not in Kentucky. Sorry, it just isn't in the grand scheme of things.

Actually, in algebra I have a B, in physics i have a C+ (it will be a B once my test grades are entered) and in A+ I have an A.... so yes I do breeze through high school, I'm just very bored with it.

Those aren't good grades. A C+ in Physics?! You have to get an A+ before you're allowed to even *think* about slacking off.

First off, Microsoft can suck my dick for all I care, and then go burn in a hole. Second off, I am very computer savvy, my dad is a computer guy and I'll end up teaching HIM some things (pertaining to things he doesn't normally use, such as Excel and Word).

Third of all, once again, I'm not stupid, and when I say my grades are slippin I mean going from a 4.0 to a 3.7.

Ooo, temper temper! Well, guess what, Microsoft STILL owns at least 90% of the computer market, so get used to them. You need to learn Msft Office to survive in today's economic world whether you like it or not. But you can have fun with your Linux and be part of the 0.01% of their little unconnected society.

BTW, with the grades you mentioned above, that ain't no 4.0 or even 3.7.

Yeah, I honestly doubt it too, when (please, point it out for me) did I ever say "I'm at the level of Hilary Hahn or Charlie Parker, so I think I should be like Hilary and go audition at curtis since I'm 16, already 6 years later than Hilary, I should be fine."

Or anything along those lines? when? PLEASE if I ever did, PLEASE I beg of you to point it out. I only said "for EXAMPLE: blah blah blah"

Never once did I state that I was better or as good as Hilary, I only said that it has been done before with child prodigies, and if I was even half as good maybe I could get into one before I get too old. Thats it. Nothing more.

Oh stop being such a baby please. And no, child prodigies don't get into conservatories because of their ability, they get in because they can develop into fine musicians and give the school some press to boot. Why do you think Juilliard gobbles up all the kids? Because they're *the* school for music, at least that's what they and people think. You won't get there because you're not a child prodigy that's been documented by 60 minutes. (Yes, that was a reference to Jay Greenberg who is in Juilliard pre-college on full scholarship).

Actually, I was brought up on the belief that you have to work for anything you get. its not like I just was handed anything I accomplished, such as all-state, or GSA or GSM, or anything else for that matter. Even my car, my parents didn't buy me one, I had to save up for it... I mean granted it was only 6 grand but the point is I didn't just say "GIMME GIMME GIMME I'm entitled to [fill in the blank]!!"

Lol. You have to WORK for your high school diploma. Isn't that a novel concept?

Lol. In New York that may have been impressive, not in Kentucky. Sorry, it just isn't in the grand scheme of things.

To be honest... NOBODY is impressed by anything anymore (slight exaggeration).

So... you've got to PULL IT TOGETHER and push yourself to the limit if you even want to be NOTICED.

*grumbles something about life sucking...*

To be honest... NOBODY is impressed by anything anymore (slight exaggeration).

So... you've got to PULL IT TOGETHER and push yourself to the limit if you even want to be NOTICED.

*grumbles something about life sucking...*

I know this all to well. Welcome to the music scene in New York.

No, welcome to the realization of your own mediocrity.

Ditto. :D

Now that we all got the insults out of the way...

Ni!