Choosing Composition as a Major

I was talking to my sister the other day about going into Composition as my major in college. She was trying to talk me out of it because she says all they teach is atonal; so here I am to ask the best. Is this true? If not can you please provide examples?

I know there is opera and theater music. I'm mostly talking classical, orchestration, etc. Thanks! :toothygrin:

Well good for you, your sister does not know what she is talking about. Being a composition major, yes, a good professor will push you in directions that might not be what you are use to, but they will most likely not force you to write one way or another.

My prof pushes me in all direction, Tonal, atonal, and every thing in between. A good professor will let you evolve as a composer naturally but will still push you in order to bring out your best and teach you things about how to write better music.

What your sister said is a very common misconception about composition programs and all creative fields. Most think they will be forced to do things that are do not want to do or are not them. However, that is almost never the case. So I say if you really want to major in composition, do it.

^ He's right. I hate my professor's music, but he has been surprisingly sympathetic to what I want to do, which is nothing near his music. A good teacher will work with you, but will also make sure you come out of college as a good composer all around, which may include some atonal writing. I've done some exercises in music I'm not really interested in, including twelve-tone stuff. Remember, you don't want to be ignorant about anything.

Well, studying composition will not primarily be about learning to imitate styles of the past centuries. Sure, traditional harmony, form, orchestration etc. will all be covered, but the aim of composition classes tends to be helping you to find an individual approach of writing contemporary music, with a certain awareness of the musical environment we now live in. Since "atonal music" is one part of said environment and tradition, particularly of the past century, you probably won't be able to avoid it (nor should you, in my opinion).

That doesn't mean you have to write atonal music. (Keeping in mind that this is a term that means very different things to different people.) But it means you can't just ignore it and write carelessly in a Mozart style. You can certainly write in all kinds of ways, but studying composition will still expect you to take the various developments and questions of the 20th and 21st century seriously and, in some way, relate to them.

If the term "atonal" is enough to completely repel you, then I'd advise you to reconsider studying composition. If you just are more interested in other ways of writing music, but are still open to different approaches, ready to learn other things and open to venture into other areas too, then that sounds fine to me.

What music do you like listening to or what music is close to your style of writing (that can be a difficult question, I know…)? How many composers of the 20th/21st century, or more particularly, how many post World War 2 composers are you familiar with/have you heard music of?

So what are the best schools for composition?

What music do you like listening to or what music is close to your style of writing (that can be a difficult question, I know

Out of curiosity, why would you want to major in composition? What are you aiming for, career-wise, that you believe would benefit from a major in composition? It's a very very narrow major, after all, which is something you should consider before investing too much time and money into it.

Out of curiosity, why would you want to major in composition? What are you aiming for, career-wise, that you believe would benefit from a major in composition? It's a very very narrow major, after all, which is something you should consider before investing too much time and money into it.

True. And it's really an all or nothing endeavor if you want to study seriously. In the United States, a degree of worth is going to be a Bachelor of Music. It's too specialized to do anything but get a terminal degree and teach, but getting a Bachelor of Arts in Composition isn't going to be rigorous enough training to be competitive in the market that other people with music degrees will be entering.

Of course, any amount of talent and luck could break you into the musicians'/public's conscience at any point in your life regardless of training; the point of the degree is for both the training and professional connections.

What about a BFA? That's what I got... But to be honest, I just used it to learn, like the op wanted. And learn I did...

Just make sure you take classes to complement your music. Every single thing you learn about can be applied to music. I tried typing out a list of subject that I've personally looked into that related to my music, and I just ended up typing out every department on a college campus.

My point was that unless she's pursuing a career in teaching or in concert composition, there really isn't a demand for a degree in composition — I'm speaking about the world of media scoring. I (and the other, far more experienced composers I know or have talked to) have yet to encounter an employer who decided to hire or not hire on the basis of degree.

Is there any point to getting a Ph.d in composition? That's what I'm hoping to do.

Is there any point to getting a Ph.d in composition? That's what I'm hoping to do.

now a days, its almost required if you want some form of job security as a composer. with a Ph.D you can at least teach composition at a university if things dont pan out the way one wants it to.

You better be good at theory.

I agree. Earning your money with composing alone (at least when talking about "concert" music as opposed to incidental music) is almost impossible, so a teaching job at an university is sort of the career a majority will ultimately be going for who study composition, since that's at least a job that is very closely tied to composing and still leaves you room to do your own thing. So I think that teaching at an university is actually the thing a lot of composers do when things do pan out the way they want to (which already isn't easy) ;)

And if you even get to teach composition instead of "just" theory, that's even more of an "optimal development" in the eyes of many (mine included - although I'd be perfectly happy with a theory teaching job as well).

Composing is very hard, I suggest developing other skills and interests.

Composing is very hard, I suggest developing other skills and interests.

But, if you want to compose, you need those other skills. So if someone wants to compose, learn something first!

I mostly want to go into composing for the training. Can I get that same experience with just a BA in Music? I'd like to be both a concert composer and write Music for Movies. I understand you don't necesarily need a degree to do that but I need a teacher. I'm trying but you can only do so much on your own.

Personally I think that if you want to study composition, go at least for a Masters. A BA in Music/Composition is more like an introduction to the matter, but simply doesn't last long enough to give you a solid education on anything and won't count for very much out there either.

Well, it's not like a doctorate in composition is the most reputable degree out there.

A doctorate in anything is pretty legit, man... That's how much money invested?

Well, it's not like a doctorate in composition is the most reputable degree out there.

I've found it to hold a LOT of weight, actually.

Your sister isn't completely incorrect, however you won't JUST be doing atonal, or as I like to call it, pantonal music. My prof is making us do contemporary stuff at the moment, but we will be working on other sorts of pieces later on. And its not as if doing contemporary is awful, it can be quite fun.

Is there any point to getting a Ph.d in composition? That's what I'm hoping to do.

A Phd is a research degree most usually, which means that you are not being taught new things, but you research on your own. Ergo you could be doing it on your own, along with someone on your side, or without (in the place of a supervisor and a university above your head).

There's absolutely no doubt that belonging in academia will force you to learn, work faster, etc. But it still remains questionable if you can do it outside the academia.

Unis also offer a great range of other facilities and things to learn, and a clever student should take up on anything his/her uni offers!

Final reason for going for a PhD is funding. I got a scholarship paying for my tuition fees, and also around $1000 per month for 3 years! I just thought myself that it beats working, and I also get a PhD in the end. So... why not really? (I was also interested in research, so it did fit my personality, right?)

_____________

The paper itself is used on two places:

1. To teach in a uni, in return. You can't really do it without a PhD.

2. To get a chance in being heard when attempting to grab a gig.

No. 1 is self explained. You want to teach in academia? You most probably need a PhD. Not exclusively, but the way things are headed most probably.

No. 2 means that if you approach a potential client and go "Hi, I'm a composer", chances are they won't listen, but if you approach them with a "Hi, I hold a Phd in composition and I'm a composer", chances are that they may actually read the rest of the letter/e-mail and maybe even to your demoreels.

As for money, for the UK. Tuition fees was ardoun 3250 GBP per year, so around 10,000 GBP for 3 years, plus living expenses, etc. This is for an EU student. For outside Europe fees sky rocketed at around 11,000 GBP per year (so 33,000 in three years).

Lord Skye: What on earth are you talking about? As a degree PhD is pretty much on the top shelf (except for a post doctorate of course). The uni plays an important part, and in a practical sense a PhD candidate may know nothing against someone who's had lessons with... Messiaen (an example...), or Ligeti or someone ultra famous! But it still remains that a PhD holds a lot of weight really!

I was talking to my sister the other day about going into Composition as my major in college. She was trying to talk me out of it because she says all they teach is atonal; so here I am to ask the best. Is this true? If not can you please provide examples?

I know there is opera and theater music. I'm mostly talking classical, orchestration, etc. Thanks! :toothygrin:

Ah, to be as young as you again... I'll say this much...

Your sister is 'almost' correct. She's just not very up to date on her terminology. I'll speak broadly about music composition programs out there for purposes of giving you 'an overview'. You need to do your homework on this in more detail.

A composition major is a focus on 'abstracts' of music. It is not technical or method-based. You will likely feel no more 'competent' to write the music you probably want to write with a major in composition. Like you said, you know 'opera' and 'theater', classical and orchestral music, etc. You were inspired to write music because you like the music you've heard in films. This is a great reason. It was the reason I started writing music. I love the music of greats like Max Steiner, John Williams, Ennio Morricone, Jerry Goldsmith (sad he's gone), and so on...

There is more music. LOTS more. Of the amount of time you'll see dedicated to all the different kinds of music out there, you should expect to see less than 1% of it spent on the music from the traditional canon that you need to know to competently write the kind of music that inspires you (film music, etc.) if you major in music composition. In other words, if it's your goal to make music that sounds like the music you hear in films, you'll have to go another route, because you won't just graduate with a bachelors and know what you need to know.

I've heard mixed reviews on technical programs geared toward writing commercial (film) music. You may end up meeting the other end of the spectrum... not learning enough about music. You'll, of course, learn a LOT about sound design and engineering, the equipment you'll need, how to use it, and so on. You may end up being a 'one-trick pony' for a composer, knowing only 1% of the music you can draw upon as a composer to be truly innovative and ultimately more successful in your career. If only a program existed that gave you the focus on music that a major in composition gives you while still preparing you to be a career composer in the 'business' of music. Does such a program exist?

If it does, chances are it's not being taught by someone with enough experience in the industry. The 'John Williams's and 'James Horner's of the world aren't teaching this stuff at universities... sure, they may be guest lecturers from time to time... but the "Andrew Lloyd Weber Conservatory for Career Music Composers Who Want to Write for Film, Musical Theater, Commercials, Professional Orchestras, and Anything ELSE that Pays You to Write Music" does not exist and likely never will. In short, a gap in knowledge between composing as an art and composing as a business is huge. There is no way to get around it - there aren't enough successful industry composers out there to pool a faculty out of them, and universities (academia) is SO stuck up its own donkey in tradition, teaching and advocating Modernism/Postmodernism in the study and practice of composition - what you think would be a 'common sense' solution to this knowledge gap is, in reality, impossible for universities or the music industry to really pull off.

Eventually, you'll discover that you have to teach yourself what a degree or major won't offer you... and that's the 'Liberal Arts College' for ya, which is generally the college at a university that a School of Music answers to if it is anything more than a Music Department. And yes. There is a difference between a School of Music and a Music Department. The Liberal Arts approach is to teach you just enough so that you can teach yourself what you want to learn. Thomas Jefferson founded the first one in America long ago, and the same approach is still alive and well today.

Your career aspirations are really going to guide this decision. What do you feel more confident that you will be able to learn on your own? Is technology more overwhelming to learn on your own than reading a music score? Do you think you can pick up a music score and really come to understand what you're hearing on your own? If this is the direction you want to go, just understand that you're going to have some choices to make, some schools that will be better equipped to help you more than others, and go with your gut. But plan on being in school, on learning a lot of stuff you may feel you don't need to know (because you may not end up ever using it in the music you write or the sound engineering/recording you end up doing), for four years. If you're not motivated enough to go four+ years to school to get the degree and learn more than you think you'll ever need to know, a major in composition is not for you.

That's about as much as I can write to sum up for you what you're getting into based on what you know now, what inspires you to be a composer, and what you should expect to encounter when you enter a composition program.

If you're gonna major in composition, make sure you're good at composing along with other things related (including teaching and academics)