Help... Is there any point in (me) being original?

Bull. scraggy.

:)

I take it you disagree with me. But look, it should not be taken as derogatory - there are some things that require us to be older and more knowledgeable than we possibly can be as college freshmen.

And we should also keep in mind the scope of what we call a 'distinct artistic voice.' A freshman in college, unless there are extreme extenuating circumstances, is not going to have the maturity (musical or otherwise) to create this level of artistic expression, whatever the degree of distinction or 'originality' may be. At this early of a stage in learning composition, we more often imitate the style(s) of others than create something unique. It's more of a cognitive issue in how we learn than a statement like, "You're just not 'growed up' enough."

That's just my opinion based on experience, perspective, and my study of cognition in education.

TLDR: SO HERE'S THE PROBLEM! I want to make my own music, as pure and undiluted as it will be. I want people to hear that music, and I don't care how.

Then do it.

Then do it.

Haha, exactly.

TLDR: SO HERE'S THE PROBLEM! I want to make my own music, as pure and undiluted as it will be. I want people to hear that music, and I don't care how. Is it worthwhile even bothering to do so, or should I give up and "sell out" by writing performance pieces/jazz lead sheets/commercial jingles/anything that might be more commercially viable? Would that music even be as good as if I just wrote what I wanted or would it pale in comparison?

One thing you should keep in mind Skye is that a college is ment to learn it's students how to make a living. As for the study as well as for the job you might work goes that it won't be fun all the time.

If you wan't to just write the music you like to write you might considering going to college to learn a craft you would like to 'sell out' for.

If you do want to make money by being a composer you should accept the fact that you are being thought the basics in the first years and in the later years you will (probebly) be able to specialise.

I study psychology and I want to become a psychotherapist, yet I have learned a lot about doing psychological research. I hate the topic, but it's part of the field.

If you want to make music without thinking about the commercial benefits you might want to think about doing or learning things you can make money with.

You know, after reading the OP again, I get the sense you just don't want to write works for 'live performance'. As in, that's really your one objection is having to write music that can be performed live on stage by musicians instead of through electronics.

If you wanted to study strictly composing music through electronic equipment and not have to write for live performers, did you stop to think about enrolling in a Recording Industry program instead of a music composition program? Have you looked into music schools that offer a concentration in electronic music? I know there are a few programs out there now offering what you seem to be looking for in instruction.

I didn't mean that to be disrespectful. On the whole, I suppose in most circumstances you're right but. I disagree that it's as difficult as you say to have achieved some level of that by that time.

It's a really thin line to consider one work by one student 'distinctive' and another student's work 'imitative'. There are no such 'absolutes'. It just so happens that in more concrete areas of knowledge, students between the ages of 18-25 (give or take) often imitate more than they create. This imitation is actually crucial to the development of creativity.

Like I said before, exceptions will always exist. But the students who make such achievements often know more about music than their peers (and sometimes their mentors) and can make more authoritative decisions in their creative process. This is where knowledge plays an 'indicative' role in what we do as composers. But I think this is far more rare than what we could conceptually see as creating a 'distinct (and I should have added 'independent') voice'. You're well beyond the need for composition lessons and instruction when you reach that stage, because you're able to harness from a treasure trove of knowledge what you need to create something unique all on your own.

Money is never an issue.

One thing you should keep in mind Skye is that a college is ment to learn it's students how to make a living. As for the study as well as for the job you might work goes that it won't be fun all the time.

...

If you want to make music without thinking about the commercial benefits you might want to think about doing or learning things you can make money with.

Yes, good point. College is supposed to be the median between school and job. I've been thinking about what I might do just to put bread on the table, and it might just be something unrelated to any art.

You know, after reading the OP again, I get the sense you just don't want to write works for 'live performance'. As in, that's really your one objection is having to write music that can be performed live on stage by musicians instead of through electronics.

If you wanted to study strictly composing music through electronic equipment and not have to write for live performers, did you stop to think about enrolling in a Recording Industry program instead of a music composition program? Have you looked into music schools that offer a concentration in electronic music? I know there are a few programs out there now offering what you seem to be looking for in instruction.

Yeah, that's a better assessment. I mean, I'll write for people when I want live tracks in my stuff (and I know I will), but for the most part I love working with recordings and want my music distributed mostly with recordings. So I thought a lot about going into a school for electronic music. But I figured for one, it wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't write good music to begin with - I'd just be another mediocre writer who has good recordings - and for two, I can learn how to do electronic music a little easier than composition, probably. At least for the first few years. It would probably be a great idea to go into electronic music study after my bachelor's, though, instead of a master's in comp. I'll think about it.

One thing you should keep in mind Skye is that a college is ment to learn it's students how to make a living. As for the study as well as for the job you might work goes that it won't be fun all the time.

That is not the mission of universities. Universities are NOT, I repeat, ARE NOT, vocational/technical institutes. They are institutes of HIGHER LEARNING. There's a difference guys. I don't go to a top school to earn my xxxxxx plumbing license.

To make money you have to write what people will pay money to hear.

In some cases this means "selling out" your principles, in others it doesn't. Either way, your principles are your own, and as long as you're understanding of the situations in which you're writing music, you haven't "sold out."

Nobody is going to pay you money for something they could hear from a more famous artist. This means that no matter what, you still have to bring something original to the table, even if it is in an idiom that you might find "unoriginal."

Who exactly is paying composers for their pieces? Is anyone on this board receiving commissions? Somehow I doubt this. I think you guys have really idealized views of what the current state of the composer & the market is.

To be perfectly honest, I don't know what you all write, but there is no money in writing orchestra music, so I hope you're all ready to acclimate. Learn how to use sequencing software and scraggy, learn about the music of cultures from AT LEAST the past 50 years...and by that I don't mean Honegger (wait, when did Honegger die?) but Lady Gaga. From the posts I've seen on this board no one is even aware of current trends and composers in mainstream classical, let alone the larger pop/rock/rap/etc markets. Please don't talk about "marketing to the masses" and think that the masses want Sibelius/Finale dilettante copy-pastings of pseudo-Tchaikovsky/Holst music.

Who exactly is paying composers for their pieces? Is anyone on this board receiving commissions? Somehow I doubt this. I think you guys have really idealized views of what the current state of the composer & the market is.

To be perfectly honest, I don't know what you all write, but there is no money in writing orchestra music, so I hope you're all ready to acclimate. Learn how to use sequencing software and scraggy, learn about the music of cultures from AT LEAST the past 50 years...and by that I don't mean Honegger (wait, when did Honegger die?) but Lady Gaga. From the posts I've seen on this board no one is even aware of current trends and composers in mainstream classical, let alone the larger pop/rock/rap/etc markets. Please don't talk about "marketing to the masses" and think that the masses want Sibelius/Finale dilettante copy-pastings of pseudo-Tchaikovsky/Holst music.

And, again... Where do you get your info?

A concert hall composer can write music for duos, trios, solos, quartets and whatever other chamber ensemble there is. It's not THAT hard to get performed or to get commissions for that, if you're good. There's tons of competition, but it remains a fact that apart from being good you need to market your self.

There also music for the media, who is rather close to "film music" and thus early 20th century classical music some times. There's ads, computer games, films, documentaries and whatnot to score.

There are a few members here who have a perfectly decent idea of what's going on in the contemporary music world. Just because this is YOUNG composers forum and not young COMPOSERS forum it doesnt' mean that everyone is young and thus silly and ignorant (for you). I'd say that it's quite healthy to imitate someone at a younger age.

Also, colleges do not largely prepare someone on how to make a living. This is the business part which is always different in real life, than in a uni. Colleges and universities teach you certain aspects on the craft/skill you want to learn. There are various classes about CVs, etc but it does remain that a university's job is not to find you work, but to make you equiped so you can do that on your own.

Marius, Robin (not Jessome, though I'm sure he gets paid for his stuff as well), and I all are working film composers.

Nikolas, I'm sure, gets paid for his stuff as well. I know I'm leaving people out, so feel free to chime in. There are many more people on this forum than you think that are actual working, professional, composers.

EDIT: Well, there you have it. Listen to Nikolas before you shoot your mouth off again.

Now, now, now...

Are any of you actually good?

Now, now, now...

Are any of you actually good?

What do you mean? If Marius, QcC, Robin, me, Nathan etc are "good" composers?

And... where are you getting your info exactly? I'm getting commissions and if not in concert hall music, I do so from computer games. I'm sorry to break it to you but I make 80-90% of my living from composing alone!

And, again... Where do you get your info?

A concert hall composer can write music for duos, trios, solos, quartets and whatever other chamber ensemble there is. It's not THAT hard to get performed or to get commissions for that, if you're good. There's tons of competition, but it remains a fact that apart from being good you need to market your self.

There also music for the media, who is rather close to "film music" and thus early 20th century classical music some times. There's ads, computer games, films, documentaries and whatnot to score.

There are a few members here who have a perfectly decent idea of what's going on in the contemporary music world. Just because this is YOUNG composers forum and not young COMPOSERS forum it doesnt' mean that everyone is young and thus silly and ignorant (for you). I'd say that it's quite healthy to imitate someone at a younger age.

Also, colleges do not largely prepare someone on how to make a living. This is the business part which is always different in real life, than in a uni. Colleges and universities teach you certain aspects on the craft/skill you want to learn. There are various classes about CVs, etc but it does remain that a university's job is not to find you work, but to make you equiped so you can do that on your own.

In my defense

1) I was mainly talking about America. I wouldn't make strong statements about countries I've never lived in, come on now :(

1a) Doesn't Canada heavily subsidize the arts and whatnot?

1b) Nikolas you're a good composer, I'd hope you'd be able to make something of that, otherwise what hope would the rest of us have?

Money is never an issue.

I can tell you have never lived on your own.

Now, now, now...

Are any of you actually good?

Are you?

Who exactly is paying composers for their pieces? Is anyone on this board receiving commissions? Somehow I doubt this. I think you guys have really idealized views of what the current state of the composer & the market is.

Yup. I have.

To be perfectly honest, I don't know what you all write, but there is no money in writing orchestra music, so I hope you're all ready to acclimate.

Now that's just blatantly untrue. Sure, there's no much and it is infrequent, but to say there's none is just lunacy. Perhaps it is because I'm in New York where they can actually afford to make commissions.

Learn how to use sequencing software and s***, learn about the music of cultures from AT LEAST the past 50 years...and by that I don't mean Honegger (wait, when did Honegger die?) but Lady Gaga. From the posts I've seen on this board no one is even aware of current trends and composers in mainstream classical, let alone the larger pop/rock/rap/etc markets. Please don't talk about "marketing to the masses" and think that the masses want Sibelius/Finale dilettante copy-pastings of pseudo-Tchaikovsky/Holst music.

HAH! Oh yes they do. When was the last time you listened to a film score? John Williams? Stolen right from Holst and Mahler.

Lmao, I don't live beyond my means. Nor do I go to schools I can't afford.

What do you mean? If Marius, QcC, Robin, me, Nathan etc are "good" composers?

Yes.

And I'm not questioning that at all... if you catch my drift. As in... you are(?)

*Laden with it all*

And now if you look above... Tokkemon has made uber intelligent comments... as he always does.

I'd direct the wisdom to that hot tranny mess.

Yes.

And I'm not questioning that at all... if you catch my drift. As in... you are(?)

in that case my reply is simple: All the composers I've mentioned have pieces uploaded here in various threads. Listen and make up your own mind. If the fact that these people make a living out of composing is not enough, then maybe you can be a judge on your own. (Honestly, I'm not being sarcastic or anything). There's no reason in me telling you that I am, indeed, good. What would you expect? ;)

I can tell you have never lived on your own.

The fact that you said this to YC26 is one of the most ironic things I have ever witnessed in my short 20-something year life.

Now that's just blatantly untrue. Sure, there's no much and it is infrequent, but to say there's none is just lunacy. Perhaps it is because I'm in New York where they can actually afford to make commissions.

Oh wow you live in New York, I sure am impressed now.

HAH! Oh yes they do. When was the last time you listened to a film score? John Williams? Stolen right from Holst and Mahler.

There are film composers besides John Williams. He's also pretty old and not considered mainstream anymore really. If we're gonna talk film scores of the Williams generation though, Jerry Goldsmith and some other made a lot of great contributions. I'm not going to debate whether or not they're good because who gives a crap (I like Goldsmith though).

Elfman, Zimmer, etc etc sound nothing like John Williams though...at all. Then there's that one French composer who I don't feel like looking up the name of. He wrote the score for Amelie. There's just a lot of stuff, saying it's all John Williams is pretty ignorant.

Lmao, I don't live beyond my means. Nor do I go to schools I can't afford.

This statement is also ironic. Conservatives failing at conservatism: business as usual in Amurica.

This statement is also ironic. Conservatives failing at conservatism: business as usual in Amurica.

Agreed! :D

Agreed! :D

I was talking about you buddy. Mr. I wasted money on bottom tier schools and now work as an insurance salesman.

I was talking about you buddy. Mr. I wasted money on bottom tier schools and now work as an insurance salesman.

I don't work as an insurance salesman anymore. I'm actually enrolled locally fulfilling my requirements for a teaching certification.

I was also referring to the condition in music now that 'commissions' are paid for entirely different things than they used to be... i.e., music for film instead of just music for orchestra. I'm agreeing with you, just obviously not for the same reasons.

Or maybe you just don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about... and post rather ignorant statements all while backpedaling your way into ignorance. How's that working out for you, by the way?

I don't work as an insurance salesman anymore. I'm actually enrolled locally fulfilling my requirements for a teaching certification.

I was under the impression all this time you already had done all of that. Oh well.