neapolitan sixth in minor

to dumb this down....

In the key of Eminor it is a F# major triad ,so you emphasize A#?

In the key of e minor, the Neapolitan sixth chord is an F major with an A in the bass.

In the key of e minor, the Neapolitan sixth chord is an F major with an A in the bass.

oh no... I am looking at a baroque menuet and it lays on an A# in bar 6, I thought i had worked out where it came from!

I cannot work out where this A# is from, does anyone know....I will post it up tomorrow...

oh no... I am looking at a baroque menuet and it lays on an A# in bar 6, I thought i had worked out where it came from!

I cannot work out where this A# is from, does anyone know....I will post it up tomorrow...

What do you mean emphasise? I second what Daniel said (flattened supertonic major 1st inversion).

Yeah, that's the usual, 'classical' position, though later it can be seen in root position, too.

The Neapolitan sixth chord can never be in 'root position' by definition - it's a Neapolitan sixth chord! (I.e., first inversion)

If it's in root position, you can't call it N sixth.

@Andy UK. If there's an A# it's probably either a chromatic auxilliary / passing note, or it's being used to modulate to the dominant, B.

In root position it would be a flattened major supertonic chord, yes?

here is a link to the music:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e-PaDM-lHf_KDulZ5DNLhQ?feat=directlink

Bar 6 confuses me (where is the A# from).... its probably obvious to you lot!

Daniel, of course! There is no word 'sixth' in my post. jawoodruff, yes.

I tried to open the link, but it looks like I have temporary connection problems, I'll check back later.

here is a link to the music:

http://picasaweb.goo...feat=directlink

Bar 6 confuses me (where is the A# from).... its probably obvious to you lot!

It looks like the composer is chromatically messing with the sense of tonality in this piece. The A# would serve as a leading tone to the dominant - which gives away that is what he is doing.

He also moves between E minor and E major regularly through this.

Yeah, as jawoodruff said, this has nothing to do with a N6. It's an ordinary double dominant (V7/V).

Personally, I don't quite see how this constitutes a messing with the sense of tonality though. This is one of the most typical harmonic progressions you'll find in piece of this time, and a modulation to the dominant may ultimately even stabilize a key more than doing no modulation at all.

I checked the piece, too. As was already said, A# is not part of the N6 chord in E min (as well as F#). At bar 6, A# is the leading tone to V, being the third of V/V, and then you also have F# at the second beat, which is the root of V/V. So what you have is a secondary dominant (or DD, as Gardener said, since it is a dominant to the dominant).

But I didn't quite understand what you mean by the word 'emphasize'. :huh:

Yeah, as jawoodruff said, this has nothing to do with a N6. It's an ordinary double dominant (V7/V).

Personally, I don't quite see how this constitutes a messing with the sense of tonality though. This is one of the most typical harmonic progressions you'll find in piece of this time, and a modulation to the dominant may ultimately even stabilize a key more than doing no modulation at all.

Well, as I said the last sentence.. the impression is there that he's moving between E major and E minor.

Well, as I said the last sentence.. the impression is there that he's moving between E major and E minor.

That may be a matter of perspective. To me it didn't seem like moving between E major and E minor, but a rather clear E minor, where "E major" appears once in measure 10/11 (but -not- as an alterated/major tonic, but as the dominant to the subdominant, which again is a common thing and it doesn't really affect the role of E minor as the tonic).

Gardener and Daniel have been correct in all his postings here.

Just a reminder to all - when analyzing the harmony and voice leading of a piece be sure to do the following:

a) Look ahead to see WHERE the music is going. Music is sound (and its absence ) IN MOTION.

b) Pay attention to the rhythm and non-harmonic tones.

c) Practice reducing pieces to harmony and melody whenever possible when doing harmonic analysis.

PS. The E major chord is serving solely as the dominant of A major which is the subdominant of the home tonality E minor.