Can you call people composers who compose music in programmes like GPO4?

Cause they are not really composing/writing it, they just putting random pieces of sounds together. Well thats my opinion. Whats yours? =)

Putting sounds together is composition, olol.

That neither of those programs are actually used for composing.

If someone could compose in GPO or EWQL, I would call them magicians who know how to change a Giraffe into a Zebra.

The purpose of GPO/EWQL is to render midi into a sound that is more representative of the indicated notation. In a sense, you're not "composing" when you're "rendering" music with these programs. That being said, many composers might compose -into- software notation platforms like Finale, Sibelius, Logic, Sonic, etc. to reduce the steps toward completing the rendering of their composition. That's what I do, and I can assure you I -compose- regardless of what steps I take to reach a final recording of the piece (live performance or otherwise).

Cause they are not really composing/writing it, they just putting random pieces of sounds together. Well thats my opinion. Whats yours? =)

Sorry but that's just BS! I feel sad everytime I see/hear a statement like that. Come on dude, wake up! So when you 'compose' on paper, you're just putting random pieces of lines and dots together! Geesus.

I use Finale 2009 now. That is complete with GPO. I compose the music in Finale and then utilize GPO to render my works - for a more realistic simulation of the work as opposed to midi.

Hate to break it to you JA, but GPO is MIDI. No more - no less.

This thread is ridiculous. ANY combination of musical sounds in an organized manner (or sometimes unorganized) is composition. One must realize that pencil & paper, MIDI, etc. are METHODS used for composing. The art of composing in itself still stands.

Vell vell...

They are composers...I mean, they're writing music...just because it's music programming doesn't make it NOT music. And yes, it is slopping things together..but that's still composing.

What?! How can you say stuff like that? Just because they aim at performing their music through a better sample library (yes EW are far better than GPO or Sibelius stock), doesn't mean they haven't gone through the whole process of composition, arranging, orchestration aso - only THEN to meticulously caring for it through programming (yes that's a whole other step in the process) and mixing.

Man I like peaking in at this forum, but I seem to find a lot of narrowmindedness (is that a word?) and snobbery.

Different METHODS of composing stress different aspects of the music.

For example if you wanted to pay special care to the vertical spacing of parts, composing in a 6-stave concert pitch short score would help visualize this most clearly. Composing in full transposed score would make this a bit more difficult, and composing in a DAW like Logic would be harder still.

Composing in DAWs vs notation programs has tradeoffs... the main one being that DAWS are a lot faster.

Here is a video of a guy composing a short action cue in Logic, live:

As you can see he can generate good-sounding parts in no time with Logic. On the other hand the arrangement of voices (trombones vs low strings) seems to be conflicting, something that would be a lot easier to see in Finale.

Sorry but that's just BS! I feel sad everytime I see/hear a statement like that. Come on dude, wake up! So when you 'compose' on paper, you're just putting random pieces of lines and dots together! Geesus.

Cause it's like Mozart gave them some parts of music, and all they have to do is just put them together, so it sounds good. They are not creating the sounds by themselfs.

So when an orchestra is playing your music, and the musicians create the sounds without you - you are really the laziest 'composer' out there?

Do you even know how these programs work? It's not like stock music they give you. They just give you each note on all the instruments seperately.

On the other hand the arrangement of voices (trombones vs low strings) seems to be conflicting, something that would be a lot easier to see in Finale.

This depends on the level of the composer and his experience in working in these apps. Don't know this guy, and don't care about his music.

So when an orchestra is playing your music, and the musicians create the sounds without you - you are really the laziest 'composer' out there?

Do you even know how these programs work? It's not like stock music they give you. They just give you each note on all the instruments seperately.

Oh really? I thought they give you random pieces of music and you put them together. Weel in that case I am going to download it! =)

Oh really? I thought they give you random pieces of music and you put them together. Weel in that case I am going to download it! =)

No, it's not. Sure, there are programs that give provide you with tiny, pre-recorded pieces of music and you can just mix them together but these are for electronic dance music.

But programs like GPO or EWGL are different. These are neither notation (of course they can be set to work for notation programs like Sibelius or Finale) nor mixing programs, these are just sound libraries. Most of us don't have the opportunity to have each our new piece played by an ensemble or an orchestra. And that's what GPO and EWGL are for; to provide you with your own orchestra. But the composition process is the same Bach, Purcell, Schubert or Mahler went through.

No, it's not. Sure, there are programs that give provide you with tiny, pre-recorded pieces of music and you can just mix them together but these are for electronic dance music.

But programs like GPO or EWGL are different. These are neither notation (of course they can be set to work for notation programs like Sibelius or Finale) nor mixing programs, these are just sound libraries. Most of us don't have the opportunity to have each our new piece played by an ensemble or an orchestra. And that's what GPO and EWGL are for; to provide you with your own orchestra. But the composition process is the same Bach, Purcell, Schubert or Mahler went through.

So can you make the file that you composed in GPO4/EWQL into midi or notations/music sheets?

Almost: MIDI sends information to EWQL about which notes to sound and sends information to notation software. EWQL and the notation software then decides what to do with it. When you're entering notes in Sibelius it's MIDI. When you play with your keyboard triggering GPO sounds it's MIDI

No, it's not. Sure, there are programs that give provide you with tiny, pre-recorded pieces of music and you can just mix them together but these are for electronic dance music.

If we're still talking about EW or GPO: No. They don't provide loops. They are only sound libraries. EW far better still. Logic, Live, Cubase come with a lot of loops, and a lot can be bought in loop packs. Often times they are drum beats, bass lines and comping. Of course you can just slap them together, and most people probably do that, but I know some pretty hefty dudes that can make a whole composition out of a 1-bar drum beat, that no one will know where it came from. Heck there's even one guy that recorded his cat miauv, and used that for a whole piece! That is where you need creativity.

btw: for the holidays, EW are offering a small package for FREE:

http://www.soundsonline.com/free-orchestra

Thanks for the tip! Reminds me of the NI Kontakt promotional freebie for the holidays.

So can you make the file that you composed in GPO4/EWQL into midi or notations/music sheets?

Again, you're not composing in EWQL literally. You need to have the piece composed first and EWGL, Native Instruments and all those sound libraries just provide a better sounding alternative to MIDI. It's just that and nothing else. I bet you'll agree that MIDI violin sounds crappy. EWGL library on the other hand sound quite close to real violin. It often lacks the emotional quality of original, but it's a very decent tool if you want to hear you piece played. And the same with every other instrument. They just sound incomparably better than MIDI.

Then you have those notation programs (Sibelius, Finale, Capella...) where you write notes and it plays them for you. But only in MIDI, which sounds lousy. To have a better sound, you can use a plug in for those sound libraries that give you much more realistic violins, cellos, saxophones, bassoons, sitar or whatever and sort of ''connect'' the notation program with the sound library - make them colaborate. Or you can do it with MIDI connector through your keyboard.

Like bryla said, they don't provide loops. They don't compose for you, they just play what you give them to play. It's your personal orchestra.

btw: for the holidays, EW are offering a small package for FREE:

http://www.soundsonline.com/free-orchestra

Good tip, thanks!