Rhythm Recycling...

Here's a video about Rhythm Recycling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QkznZb8Jwc

It's an unconventional, though sure-fire technique to getting the juices flowing. =)

Very cool.

Hey, that video was made by you! Awesome! Thus, I can ask you about your technique.

Like, what was the point of singing the C minor triad? You never really outlined it in your melody, you focused more on the dorian scale. Did you sing it so that you would keep the chord tones in mind when you sang your melody?

Nice work!

-John

I think the purpose was to internalize the sonority created by the dorian mode he was using. I think you can elaborate more on how you're building the melody. Each pitch carries an interval relationship with the pitches around it that creates a fundamental structure within the melody itself. There's a lot more to say about making a melody using your technique.

And I use a very similar method I call "mapping". You remove the pitches from the rhythm and -map- your own sonority (like you did) onto the piece following similar linear motion. That's how I was able to make an free-tone rendition of Debussy's Claire De Lune using similar rhythm and linear contour. There are all sorts of ways to create melody, but it takes an understanding of the concepts of melody (rhythm being just one of many variables) to really master melodic writing.

I think the purpose was to internalize the sonority created by the dorian mode he was using. I think you can elaborate more on how you're building the melody. Each pitch carries an interval relationship with the pitches around it that creates a fundamental structure within the melody itself. There's a lot more to say about making a melody using your technique.

What do you mean by that? I'm specifically wondering what you mean about each pitch carrying an intervalic relationship with the other pitches around it creating a fundamental structure which is the melody itself. Is that just another way of saying the intervals make up the melody?

Hey, thanks for the replies guys. :happy:

I'm using a C dorian mode, and I'm starting with the first degree > C minor chord.

So you sing the chord that you picked. I picked C minor to start with. You sing all the notes, and you pick which one you want to start with. You could also start with one off of the chord, but you have to start with a chord anyway so it's good to sing the one that you start with.

I'm specifically wondering what you mean about each pitch carrying an intervalic relationship with the other pitches around it creating a fundamental structure which is the melody itself.

What time in the video are you talking about? Maybe I can help out if I know what part I said what. x_x

but it takes an understanding of the concepts of melody (rhythm being just one of many variables) to really master melodic writing.

Well, to master melodic writing I would just think you have to be able to sing intervals. If you're able to sing all intervals and recognize them, then you don't really need to understand complicated theory at all.

You just sing it, and if you sing it you can write it.

I always go by a rule of thumb in all music: Firstly, all music is simple. Secondly, if you can sing it you can make it.

What do you mean by that? I'm specifically wondering what you mean about each pitch carrying an intervalic relationship with the other pitches around it creating a fundamental structure which is the melody itself. Is that just another way of saying the intervals make up the melody?

No, not exactly. This relies more on a Schenkerian argument that a melody is simply a composite of a larger background with linear filler among the pitches of a melody. In effect, a fundamental structure of melody is comprised of the consonant pitches of the melody that occur in relation to the harmony. So, when you think about making a melody, you think about the growth of the underlying structure as well as the composite (the actual linear material) that makes up the complete melody. Simply put, this is the inverse of what you're thinking.

For example, any melodic line is going to, by the nature of its design, shift between consonance and dissonance with the intervals of the line as well as the intervals of the harmony. When a pitch lines up with both the linear sonority (like the C Major Scale or its arpeggios) and the Tonic/Dominant 7th/Whatever chord (i.e. CEG, GBDF, etc.) you can consider it a structural pitch of the melodic line. But you also need to understand that there are factors in more memorable melodies where the middleground structure of the melody follows one of several patterns among all the structural pitches (i.e. moving from the third scale degree to the fifth, then decending down by step to the third before rising to the 8th scale degree or the central pitch of the sonority before decending again by step to the first scale degree, and so forth). This is how melodic contour forms and how melodies create, through fundamental structure, greater interest that leads to a more memorable idea for the listener to grasp.

Happy birthday is a good example. Sing the melody to yourself in the key of F, beginning on C... I'll put structural pitches in bold for you: (CCDCFE, CCDCGF, CC[C]AFED, BbBbAFGF) which, if we look at the structural intervals of the melody, yields growth C up to F down to E (Appoggiatura), C up to G down to F (another Appogiatura), then C up an octave to C (biggest leap, structurally grounded in the harmony), arpeggiating down the F major triad (implying tonic harmony), decending by step to the D (sub-dominant cadence on Bb), then finalizing the melody with a 3,2,1 urline (just a decending line that reinforces the tonality of F Major) with A, G, to F that finalizes the melody. After reduction of the melodic line, this underlying structure becomes apparent (by phrase: C->E = 3rd, C->F = 4th, C->C = Octave followed by FMaj triad and 4,3,2 descent... that's your growth and preparation for the final phrase) which leads to the final melodic moment (3,2,1 motion [AGF] with a V-I cadence supporting it) creates a strong, memorable melody.

All of this is to say that a memorable melody is "memorable" because of the underlying structure that we expect to hear from one -structural- pitch to the next. It doesn't mean each pitch is pre-determined, only that among all the notes of the melodic line, if the underlying structure of the melodic line is reinforced intervalically and harmonically, the melody will have a tendency to be more memorable because it meets certain expectations for the listener.

This is all theoretical knowledge based on Schenkerian analysis and is not agreed upon by everyone, but in most tonal music that we consider to be "memorable", these structural components of melody are very often present.

What time in the video are you talking about? Maybe I can help out if I know what part I said what. x_x

D is replying to me, actually.

Well, to master melodic writing I would just think you have to be able to sing intervals. If you're able to sing all intervals and recognize them, then you don't really need to understand complicated theory at all.

You just sing it, and if you sing it you can write it.

I always go by a rule of thumb in all music: Firstly, all music is simple. Secondly, if you can sing it you can make it.

For the most part, you're right. My argument is that, in order to master melodic writing, you need to understand the underlying structure of your melodic line and capitalize on it for maximum effect (to make it interesting and memorable, of course). This is, indeed, quite simple once you understand how an underlying structure forms among all the pitches of a melody. A lot of people can do this intuitively because they simply form the melody by ear, following the intuitive tendencies of the line itself. But some people don't develop this intuitive sense (or tend to question or otherwise ignore it) simply to be unique or original, which is fine.

I'm simply pointing out that in writing a melodic line, you can create the structure itself and then "fill in the gaps," so to speak, to make the line fulfilling and complete. Generally, a good rule of thumb is to expand the structural intervals from beginning to middle, then contract those intervals from middle to end. So, your underlying structure may begin on any degree of the scale and end on, say, the first degree of the scale.

Let's begin on the third degree... establish the structure of your melody, as it progresses, to target the fifth scale degree and descend (creating a structural interval of a third), then from the third scale degree to the seventh (creating a structural interval of a sixth). There's your beginning to middle... now simply create a descent of the line which could contain a full 8-1 descent w/ all pitches of the scale, a 5-1 descent w/ just the first five pitches of the scale, or the most common 3-1 descent establishing the pitch center and mode of the sonority.

Once this is understood, it's very easy to intuitively and analytically create a melody that is both interesting and memorable. Being able to identify and reinforce structural pitches within your melody will make melodic writing so much easier and more convincing overall. Like I said, I think there's more you can say about melodic writing with your method. The trick is figuring out how different structures form within a melodic line you write and capitalizing on them in harmonizing the line and/or adjusting the rhythm.

Antia, I definitely appreciate the time you've taken to create a long, informative, and detailed post.

For me, it's too complicated to even get into. I just sing something and write it, as simple as that, without thinking about much else.

I'm sure, though, for a lot of people that level of intelligent theory may work, but I hope that everyone also sees the option of an intuitive approach.

I guess at the same time it's what you want to do with it. I've accomplished my goal in music, just from relative pitch study, which is to be able to do anything musically. For me, thanks to singing, this is possible and I don't have to think about theory and all that stuff. =)

I want people to see that intuitive option and this level of intelligent study and weight out both options and see what works best for them.

If you do master relative pitch and perfect pitch also, it's really not hard at all. You just think it, sing it, write it, have it. It's yours, all the resources to make whatever you want musically, and you don't have to be intelligent, you can stay dumb like me x_____x. (thank god for computers and samples also)

To me, music is simple, always, every style.

It's not a hard thing. It's never a hard thing. It's just it takes daily practice of singing intervals, inversions, chords, and scales.

And getting perfect pitch. That's a good thing too, but to develop perfect pitch takes simplifying everything. That's why children and kids get it easily and we have to calm our adult intelligent nature and listen more closely, getting the real texture of each of the twelve in our heads over a long period of time/listening. =)