Observations and Misconception about the road to Musical Composition (Self Taught or Academia)

Wow, that's funny.

How can I argue with... "The mere statement that a professor cannot offer anything you cannot learn on your own is false. If you can't see how, here's a bucket full of water."

I'm still howling with laughter that we go from your blatant statement of concise fact to giving me a bucket full of water. And then the gibberish after that... and THEN you suggest I agree with you or kill myself so the world will be a better place. I mean, I've had people tell me they disagree with me. That's cool. I've had people tell me to piss off. That's fine, I admire the passion. This is a first though. I can now say I've had someone tell me to agree with them or drown myself in a bucketful of water.

That. Is. Classic.

Hope I'm not the only one here who see that this boy takes himself a bit too seriously. Wooo, he needs a drink!

I made the distinction before. To compose you don't need to study anywhere. Sure you don't. In any case, musicologists and people who have actually earned their credentials (or at least those who I've dealt with personally here in Germany and in South America) do have a lot of insight to someone who doesn't know anything.

Sure, nobody's saying that an university provides 100% of everything, nor that it'll do everything for you. However, I think you're forgetting that most of the people who would go to an university would do so because they aren't experts already. To them, a place where all the information is sorted out and organized, explained in depth and by people who deal with it professionally, is a plus.

In any case, I won't go into money issues because I don't live in/care about the US enough to know about the rates, however it goes without saying that if you want to make $$$ you shouldn't be studying music period. That's a well known fact pretty much anywhere (I guess you're lucky if you CAN get work as a musician in some countries, but for the rest of us...)

In either case, do I think that it's OK that this day and age all this information and so on is stuck in universities instead of being readily available? Of course not. But it's only a matter of time before some universities start putting their courses online (Hell the MIT put courses online on youtube on physics and scraggy like that, why can't an uni do it for music too?)

What you pay for ultimately is the infrastructure and the environment to develop your stuff, to build a repertoire and to make contacts. That's really what universities are for in almost all fields. If it were just to learn raw data, nobody would be very interested... But Jamie already touched that point and he was right, too.

Learning from books can make you look silly in front of others when you mispronounce standard terminology (I was mispronouncing the word "autodidact" for ages until someone correct me <_< ). Or worse, you might even end up making your own terminology. And as for this idea that someone can teach themselves everything... any pre-Newton scientist could have discovered gravity with a moment's thought. But they didn't. And post-Newton, suddenly every lowly science student is familiar with the idea.

But I don't know about misconceptions... that's kind of assuming I know both, what others think, and also what is actually correct. Which I don't.

Eh, who cares how systematic you study composition... we all die and eventually after a few million years blindly careen along as cosmic dust among star systems. And in the grand scheme of things, our compositions are merely inaudible peeps from dark, tiny corners.

Eh, who cares how systematic you study composition... we all die and eventually after a few million years blindly careen along as cosmic dust among star systems. And in the grand scheme of things, our compositions are merely inaudible peeps from dark, tiny corners.

So why do anything - at all?

I think the questions are posed in the hopes of maximising our compisitional efforts, regardless of whether or not the maximum is enough to have a lasting impact on the multiverse in millenia to come.

Eh, who cares how systematic you study composition... we all die and eventually after a few million years blindly careen along as cosmic dust among star systems. And in the grand scheme of things, our compositions are merely inaudible peeps from dark, tiny corners.

at last, a killer response.

on a more positive side, i cite beckett : "i can't go on, i must go on".

i'm much more happier person after quiting university, whereas 'you can't go on' was so systematically chilling, while rather never 'you must go on' was accentuated. so, instead of being responsible and responsive to all 'yous' and 'wes', i found freedom in my tiny and dark 'I'.

amen.

DJ Fatuus -

The decision on how we pass the time here as pliorius points in the Beckett quote is a question we all face and must answer. I just felt the topic had derailed from Plutokats original post which intended to share our observations of our own pursuit of becoming a better composer - not debate the value of university versus independent study.

Anyway, sorry if the quote comes off irresponsibly cynical or this derails the topic further.

Pliorius - Glad you liked my post.

If you want to study composition at a university but you also don't want to live in a box, what do you do?

Double major. Music + a money major. Those tend to include, business, accounting, information systems, and if you want the government to forgive your loans, education with teach for America. Otherwise, join the army and GI bill your way. There's way to go to college for less, just be smart about it.

Yup what Bitter says. But with a proviso - there is no such thing as a money major anymore. I have known lawyers and accountants and marketing business people out of work for over 6 months in this past severe recession ... a nice combo is to double major and get some real jobs in the summer - no, not painting Your old high school teachers summer cottages at Galveston Beach hungover from the weekend or working the drive through cashier 4 years straight at the Bugaloo Banna bar and ristorante in the LoHo district of Cornflakes, Mississippi. Something a little more.

There's still money majors. This recession will end and those majors will stay bring in income. Known fact, accountant increase along with their pay this past year. When looking for a steady income, always pick something someone always needs. In life, that's porn and a bookie.

Something a little more.

That's awfully vague.

If you want to study composition at a university but you also don't want to live in a box, what do you do?

There are many things you can do, it just depends on how well you do them and what you are willing to do.

If you just major in composition, do it for the long haul, meaning get a PhD in it. that way you can at least have the option of of teaching at the college level or private level and/or justifiably charge more for commissions and scores. This track is most likely the hardest, but if you are willing to do the work and suffer a little in the beginning is might pay off.

You can also do what others have been saying, double major, or get a minor in something else. I would stick with music or teaching majors however. You dont want to double major into something that can end up costing more money and time, plus you don't want to be in a job that gives you no time to compose music. I have seen that happen to many times already (a composition major graduates and gets a job in something else, 4 years later they havent composed a single note since graduation due to work).

If you go down that route I would stick with doubling with music education, there is always a need for music educators (especially in the south if you are willing to move) Education is also a GREAT way to pay off you student loans. I know this for a fact (mom works in Education) if you work at a Title 1 school district as a music teacher for 5 years all of you student loans are forgiven. There are many other ways but I know of that one for sure.

You can also not major in composition and depending on the school you go to still take composition lessons. That is always an options.

and of course the information a few other have posted are also very fine ideas if the idea of living in a box doesnt sound appealing.

Plutokat - great advice. Though I still know through my studies at Juilliard people who work at hedge funds and compose. It is possible - just requires smart allocation of time and resources.

As for summer jobs here is a list of some that look good to employers (music or non-music) upon graduation from college:

a) Intern as arts administration asst at a cultural institution (yes music would be best but museum and non-profits devoted to arts as well as agents for performers and artists)

b) Health clinics are always looking for students to assist

c) Financial firms seek interns in the late fall early spring.

d) Use your alumni office for opportunities - many students fail to use this valuable resource. Plus most alumni offices offer leads to possible job/intern options that the career advisement office does nopt have posted(eg you may find a composer in need of music engraving services)