Beginning Composer - Needs Basic Tips

Hey there,

I've only just begun composing. I'm going through school with the ultimate desire of scoring films. So far, though, I've only been able to take music theory classes. Nothing that specifically helps with composition, so naturally I'm kind of at a loss here.

I've started working on my first piece, a concept I've had for quite some time. My idea was to take a traditional train-inspired piece (e.g. The Great Locomotive Chase - Robert W. Smith) but use instrumentation and melodies inspired by traditional Japanese folk music. So, rather than rudimental snare, for example, I would use Taiko drums and/or rhythms. (If anyone has any experience in the area of Japanese folk music, that would be very helpful, too. i.e. traditional scales/progressions/intervals. I could make it "sound" Japanese to my ear, but I'd like to try to be authentic.)

The first problem I came across was creating a chord across the ensemble. I started in G minor (though gravitating around C) with a solo harp, intending to emulate a koto. I then tried adding notes in other instruments (I'm using Finale 2010) on a iv chord to compliment the Cs in the harp and add depth to the theme. I tried putting a G in the tuba or french horn, striving for the fifth to fill out the iv chord across the ensemble. However, contrary to my expectations these did not sound consonant whatsoever, and I'm at a loss as to what would.

Any help you could provide me would be terrific, even the most basic of advice since I know very little beyond the most basic music theory. I'll probably keep this thread up-to-date as I progress through this piece.

Thanks!

- Edward "Ed" Mace

Shinkansen - Harp.mus

I might be able to help but unfortunately I don't have much time right now. For a Japanese sound look up koto tunings and the more common pentatonic scales. The nice thing about these note collections is that if you stick to the notes it's hard to get a bad sounding chord. The notes all work together. Taiko is an excellent idea, unless you plan to have it performed live in an area where taiko are not available. You can use harp in place of koto, and marimba has a nice earthy tone. The thing about traditional Japanese music is that it pulls from nature. So many percussive sounds to use...

Anyway, here are some pieces to listen to for help:

-Qunihico (or Kunihiko) Hashimoto's Fisherman's Dance

-Nearly anything by Takemitsu, especially November Steps and Toward the Sea

-Bernard Roger's Three Japanese Dances for wind ensemble (be careful with this one, it exhibits exoticism/steretypical sounds but has some nice orchestration)

-the soundtrack to the video game Okami (elaborates on Edo period music)

-any hogaku you can get your hands on

Japan's music is always in the pentatonic scale, C# D# F# G# A#.

Japan's music is always in the pentatonic scale, C# D# F# G# A#.

Not quite.

Okay...not ALWAYS... but if you really want to get what most people think of as Asian music, you're better of with a sharp key.

Warm_Decade :could you make a Midi or mp3 of your piece? I can't get it to load because I don't have finale.

Thanks!

what most people think of as Asian music,

and here's the fault

The pentatonic scale is one of the most -basic- scales of EASTERN music, but it's neither presented nor does it sound like we understand it. The tuning system for eastern instruments for the most part is very different (it sounds "sort of" pentatonic, with slight variations to interval content) as is notation. Of course, western notation systems are seeping into eastern music, so it's really difficult to say with any certainty that in all or even most eastern cultures, the pentatonic scale is used. My question would be, "Which version of the scale is used?"

The other interesting thing about pentatonic use in eastern culture is that it is rarely exclusively used as we use it. Many times, the pentatonic is just the lower range of a much larger synthetic scale built from pentatonic. So, it's even more complex to discuss in generalities. That being said, the pentatonic scale -is- used in Japanese music, just as it is used in Korean, Vietnamese, and Chinese cultures. Each culture uses it differently, may or may not use different tuning systems, and likely incorporates western influences. World music genres co-mingle with one another so frequently now that it's difficult to say what -sounds- Japanese or Chinese, or what-have-you.

My recommendation is to dig deeper into the music of a more specific culture of Japan. Shakuhachi Flute Music is getting some serious attention. You may find some gem of musical concept in learning more about how it's written and be able to incorporate it into larger orchestrations of your music. Good luck!

The pentatonic scale is one of the most -basic- scales of EASTERN music

well..... not exactly. The pentatonic scale is the root of almost all folkmusic.

...the pentatonic scale -is- used in Japanese music, just as it is used in Korean, Vietnamese, and Chinese cultures. Each culture uses it differently, may or may not use different tuning systems, and likely incorporates western influences. World music genres co-mingle with one another so frequently now that it's difficult to say what -sounds- Japanese or Chinese, or what-have-you.

Now we're getting closer to the real deal.

My recommendation is to dig deeper into the music of a more specific culture of Japan. Shakuhachi Flute Music is getting some serious attention. You may find some gem of musical concept in learning more about how it's written and be able to incorporate it into larger orchestrations of your music. Good luck!

This is a great way to go about it. I emphasize looking into koto tunings because there you will find most of the notes that start to give traditional Japanese music (hogaku) its sound. Listen to solo koto music to get a feel for how the notes are used. For more modern compositions check out Miyagi Michio and Minoru Miki (that's last name first in both cases, I believe). After solo koto music you might move on to sankyoku (traditional ensemble music usually with koto, shamisen, and shakuhachi). The percussive slap of the shamisen is a timbre you'll want to remember. Other genres for sound sources include kabuki and Noh theater, gagaku (court music), and minyo (folk songs).

If you want to know specifics about the shakuhachi (I play one regularly) or Japanese musical aesthetics I can be of more help, but this is a good start.

This is a great way to go about it. I emphasize looking into koto tunings because there you will find most of the notes that start to give traditional Japanese music (hogaku) its sound. Listen to solo koto music to get a feel for how the notes are used. For more modern compositions check out Miyagi Michio and Minoru Miki (that's last name first in both cases, I believe). After solo koto music you might move on to sankyoku (traditional ensemble music usually with koto, shamisen, and shakuhachi). The percussive slap of the shamisen is a timbre you'll want to remember. Other genres for sound sources include kabuki and Noh theater, gagaku (court music), and minyo (folk songs).

If you want to know specifics about the shakuhachi (I play one regularly) or Japanese musical aesthetics I can be of more help, but this is a good start.

Thanks so much for your help, Black Orpheus. You seem pretty knowledgeable in this area. Thank you, too, AntiA, Heckelphone. I'll bring up a midi soon, though based on this discussion on pentatonic scales, I'll probably scrap what little I have anyway. Do any of you know a good source for me to find this kind of music? My traditional go-to music site, YouTube, has a rather poor selection in this area. :rolleyes: I did listen to November Steps there, Orpheus. Thanks for that one, it was very interesting and gave me a couple ideas. I had expected something like Hans Zimmer's Last Samurai soundtrack, but November Steps actually seems like it would be much more contributive to the vaguely industrial feel that would be associated with a train.

I was actually particularly interested in the Shakuhachi, how fortuitous that you play one! Anything you could tell me about it would be very useful. Can a normal flute effectively simulate it's sound?

I was actually particularly interested in the Shakuhachi, how fortuitous that you play one! Anything you could tell me about it would be very useful. Can a normal flute effectively simulate it's sound?

I could go on about the shakuhachi all day, but here are a few things you should know:

In a traditional context, shakuhachi is typically taught and understood as an instrument of meditation. The original meditation music (honkyoku) lacks definite rhythm and is instead based on phrases guided, like all Zen arts, by the breath. These pieces tend to be slow and spacious with rhythm open to interpretation of the performer.

The shakuhachi is unique in another way for its timbral variety. You will hear a range of sounds from a very focused tone to a breathy explosion of air. Often the sounds are meant to mimic things you find in nature, like bird calls or simply wind blowing through the leaves of a tree. There are also many note bends/slides.

A flute cannot effectively mimic shakuhachi timbre. One reason for this is the mouthpiece. The shaku is endblown and has a much larger opening than the transverse flute. Another reason is the material. The resonant qualities of bamboo are much different than those of the metal flute. A third thing is that the open holes of the shaku allow for easier access to quarter tones (often notes in honkyoku do not correspond exactly to standard pitches). Yes you can get an open-holed flute, but it's just not the same. However, I encourage you to listen to shakuhachi playing and try to mimic what you hear on a regular flute (either in your compositions or on an actual instrument; figuring out a way to notate what you hear can be challenging and fun). The timbre will be very different, but you can effectively convey a Japanese sound with the use of flute. What's nice is that the standard shaku range starts about where the flute range does, so you can theoretically hit any definite pitch on a flute that you can hit on a shakuhachi.

On a final note for now, there are many sizes of shakuhachi. The standard size (called 1.8) involves 5 holes that allow for the following definite pitches (without having to use shading or half-holing): D-F-G-A-C. These are the basic notes. All notes in between are possible, but fast playing on those notes can be quite difficult. The basic range extends from D immediately below the treble clef staff to the first D above the staff. You can go about as low as C and as high as... well, whatever harmonics you can pull off!

I hope this helps and gives you some ideas for a more idiomatic shakuhachi sound. Let me know if you need anything else.