Getting a job as a composer...

These questions are more directed towards an adult with a degree in composition, but anyone can answer.

What are some jobs that are available for composers and how do you get them? Should I get a music education degree as a "back-up plan"? My director says I can major in both music education and composition, but at this point in my life I have no interest in becoming a band director.

I just graduated and would like to know how the music business works, particularly music for movies. I, like many other young composers, wants to compose for the movies, but that is something you have to work "up the ladder" for. Is it not? I know you can start as an orchestrator, but there is probably something before that. I mean, do your college professors help you get a job right out of college or how does it work?

I'm sure there are many other young composers wondering the same thing I am.

Any advice?

to work in film, the normal route is orchestrator -> composer.

if you are in a major cinema city, you might build contacts with various jobs you do.

there is a course at UCLA (I seem to recall) in film scoring/orchestration (I know Christopher Young teaches there... a friend of mine studied under him, and is credited as an orchestrator on "The Core").

a Bachelor's in music will generally not get you a job.

a Master's can get you some teaching jobs.

A PhD opens doors in universities... to teaching.

teaching jobs in composition are few aand far between.

Most composers teach - either an instrument or some theoretical subject (history, theory, ear-training, etc...).

Personally, I do not believe a "minor" in another subject will help you - it limits time for music studies.

Teaching, esp. grade-school and high-school, is very time-intensive work and does not leave much time for composition.

An added note on teaching: unless you LOVE teaching, it is not the field for you (too many teachers do not love their work).

I hope this answered a few of your questions.

I don't know too much about life as a film composer, but I just thought I'd say that if you want to be like a freelance composer working on commissions, then it's probably pretty difficult to make a good living.

My grandad did that (unfortunately for him he was of the opinion that writing music for purely commercial reasons was "selling out") and was just about earning enough money to be comfortable. That said, I'd much rather be merely comfortable as a composer than be rich as a barrister.

Anyway, since you've already said you wanted to work on movies I guess this post doesn't have much relevance. I spent 5 minutes typing it out, though, so I'm not going to just delete it now ;):

to work in film, the normal route is orchestrator -> composer.

if you are in a major cinema city, you might build contacts with various jobs you do.

there is a course at UCLA (I seem to recall) in film scoring/orchestration (I know Christopher Young teaches there... a friend of mine studied under him, and is credited as an orchestrator on "The Core").

a Bachelor's in music will generally not get you a job.

a Master's can get you some teaching jobs.

A PhD opens doors in universities... to teaching.

teaching jobs in composition are few aand far between.

Most composers teach - either an instrument or some theoretical subject (history, theory, ear-training, etc...).

Personally, I do not believe a "minor" in another subject will help you - it limits time for music studies.

Teaching, esp. grade-school and high-school, is very time-intensive work and does not leave much time for composition.

An added note on teaching: unless you LOVE teaching, it is not the field for you (too many teachers do not love their work).

I hope this answered a few of your questions.

Yes, thank you very much. Now, if I choose to compose for films, then definately a master's or above? My situation is this: I have just graduated. I am going on a two year mission for my church this fall. When I get back...I will go to a good university...get my Bachelor's and then transfer to a music college such as Berklee or Julliard or anywhere I can get connections to work and get a degree in film scoring. Is this a good plan? Because I will need some time after this two year mission to work back up my playing abilities. (There will be some time on the mission to practice, but not much.)

A Bachelor can get you a job in a secondary school, but once again...that is not what I am shooting for.

QUESTION: For music colleges you audition for, do composers have to audition their playing and composing abilities? How do these normally work?

I don't know too much about life as a film composer, but I just thought I'd say that if you want to be like a freelance composer working on commissions, then it's probably pretty difficult to make a good living.

My grandad did that (unfortunately for him he was of the opinion that writing music for purely commercial reasons was "selling out") and was just about earning enough money to be comfortable. That said, I'd much rather be merely comfortable as a composer than be rich as a barrister.

Anyway, since you've already said you wanted to work on movies I guess this post doesn't have much relevance. I spent 5 minutes typing it out, though, so I'm not going to just delete it now :ninja::

This was definately helpful. I plan on having a family and I want to live comfortably with my family...now...I met a composer by the name of John O'Reilly and he started work as a secondary music education and eventually became an editor and composer for the Alfred Publishing company. There is an option for me....not necessarily in publishing, but finding a job (at a school and/or private lessons) until I can get into the movie business as an orchestrator and/or composer.

QUESTION: For music colleges you audition for, do composers have to audition their playing and composing abilities? How do these normally work?

Usually, yes. There's usually an interview after showing them your work and a playing audition.

Just like any business.... the best way to get a job is:

1) Connections

2) Talent

Connections can be made through teachers, colleagues, partners, family, friends, sending out your resume and chance encounters.

Talent requires natural skill and hard work.

to work in film, the normal route is orchestrator -> composer.

if you are in a major cinema city, you might build contacts with various jobs you do.

there is a course at UCLA (I seem to recall) in film scoring/orchestration. [/b]

USC has the course in film music. They teach you the skills not only to compose for films, but also to orchestrate and how to work up to becoming a full-time film composer.

a Bachelor's in music will generally not get you a job.

a Master's can get you some teaching jobs.

A PhD opens doors in universities... to teaching.

teaching jobs in composition are few aand far between.

Most composers teach - either an instrument or some theoretical subject (history, theory, ear-training, etc...).

Personally, I do not believe a "minor" in another subject will help you - it limits time for music studies.

A Masters degree should get you a job teaching in a university, but probably not a very good one. Of the composition professors at Oberlin Conservatory, two have PhDs. One of the two PhDs, however, is in physics (go figure). One has a Doctorate of Music (DM), and one has only a Masters Degree. However, his Masters is backed up by a bunch of research in the music of Brian Ferneyhough, and he's published. THAT's what really will get you jobs in universities - being a published author.

Myself, I want to work in high school as a choral music, music theory, and drama teacher. Teaching in these areas allows for ample free time to compose, and a free performance group - the choir. To get this job, I'm getting a B.M. in composition, with minors in Theatre and Music Education. Then I'll go to graduate school for my teaching degree and work on a Masters at the same time as I get my first job. In all likelihood, my first job will be a choral directing position (that's how most music teachers at the high school level get their start).

An added note on teaching: unless you LOVE teaching, it is not the field for you (too many teachers do not love their work).

TRUE! I'd qualify that with something else though. I think it's less about loving the teaching itself and more about loving the subject you're teaching. Granted, if you actually dislike teaching, it's not the field for you. But I think if you accept it as a job and go about it with a good attitude, you should be fine.

My high school music and drama teacher is a jaded and bitter asshole. He is tired of working with high school students, but he continues to teach, Lord only knows why. As a result, his students hate his classes. They like him, because he's very personable and a great guy OUTSIDE of class. But his students hate his classes. They are unresponsive in his choir, and the amount of knowledge they absorb is low.

My high school American History teacher LOVES his subject. He never intended on teaching high school - he intended on teaching college. As a result, he runs his classes like college classes, running through the material with enthusiasm. Even when his students don't study or take notes, they GET the material. They understand it, and it sits in their heads for years after the class.

I'd say that if you're enthused about the subject, therefore, your teaching should be the better for it.

Well, I would like to be a composer, but I want to do composing for whatever. My model in composition, though, is John Williams' style. I've heard he doesn't do his own orchestration, though, so maybe I'd actually like to do my orchestration for myself.

Anyway, is it completely necessary to go to Juliard or Berklee, because I'm not sure I could get in with my grades. I don't have *bad* grades, per se, but I usually get a 3.6-3.8. I also kind of want to at least graduate from Utah State University, and I, just like Piano Player, will be going on a 2 year mission after High School (I'll have about a year for college in between high school and mission).

Also, I'm getting kind of mixed messages from what people are saying.

Well, I would like to be a composer, but I want to do composing for whatever. My model in composition, though, is John Williams' style. I've heard he doesn't do his own orchestration, though, so maybe I'd actually like to do my orchestration for myself.

you have heard wrong then.

maestro Williams is one of the foremost orchestrators working in film music at this time. one of the few to successfully work both in film and concert mediums.

All of John Williams' film scores are realized in condenced score, which are extremely detailed. The orchestrator's job is simply to recopy those detailed scores into full-blown orchestratl scores. There is actually very little creative work for the orchestrator in a John Williams score..

Anyway, is it completely necessary to go to Juliard or Berklee, because I'm not sure I could get in with my grades. I don't have *bad* grades, per se, but I usually get a 3.6-3.8.

Also, I'm getting kind of mixed messages from what people are saying.

At places like Berklee, Julliard, and other conservatories, it's really all about the audition. I had about a 3.7 GPA and got into Oberlin Conservatory, which is one of the most academically strict conservatories around.

A lot of composers starve! It's a difficult field. That's why I only plan on composing as a hobby and possibly a cash supplement to another job.

Composers write music for plays, movies, commercials, bands, choirs, orchestras, or established artists. But the market is competitive and not-well-paying.

I'd reccomend studying other fields that may benefit your musical talent, in case composing just doesn't work out. I have a composer friend who is a computer programmer. My Algebra teacher leads a bad, Unfinished Wood. Because his CD just doesn't give him enough income, he takes other jobs.

If you're determined go ahead--but be warned. I'd love nothing better than to write music all day, but I am actually pursuing fields in engineering as a profession.

And where in all this am I supposed to have time to have a family? I don't feel that, with my goals, it would really work to split my talents like that if I really want to use them both (the other thing I was thinking about is Astrophysics).

And where in all this am I supposed to have time to have a family? I don't feel that, with my goals, it would really work to split my talents like that if I really want to use them both (the other thing I was thinking about is Astrophysics).

A good thing to do would be to start networking. Find people who are interested in writing/directing/producing films or theatrical productions, and get in good with them. Then you'll have guaranteed job contacts. I'm doing that right now in my college, by getting to know directors for live theatre. I'd love to write incidental music. Of course, my main career I think will be a high school or college teacher.

If you're interested in becoming a career concert composer, get in touch with BMI, Hal Leonard, Boosey and Hawkes, EMI, Neil A. Kjos, and others. They should give you some idea of what it's like to get a composing contract with a publishing company.

Here is a list of music publishers belonging to the Music Publishers' Association.

Music Publishers

As far as family goes, it's not something that you'll be able to deal with any better with one talent rather than two. It's all a question of balance. Astrophysics requires a lot of work both in its study and career fields, and so you wouldn't have much time for your family with that alone. It's not an easily solvable problem, just one that you'll have to work out for yourself.

A good thing to do would be to start networking. Find people who are interested in writing/directing/producing films or theatrical productions, and get in good with them. Then you'll have guaranteed job contacts.

This is definately good advice.

USC has the course in film music. They teach you the skills not only to compose for films, but also to orchestrate and how to work up to becoming a full-time film composer.

What does USC stand for and where is it located?

USC = University of Southern California. It's in Los Angeles.

I am a student at USC and started out there as a music composition major. I can tell you pretty much anything you want to know about USC's music school. As far as this discussion goes, bear in mind that USC's film scoring degree is for graduate students. If you go to USC as an undergrad, you can take a couple of film scoring classes in your junior and senior year, but you will graduate with a B.M.A. in Composition.

If you really want to score for films, the real value of USC lies in what others have already mentioned -- connections. USC's School of Cinema Television is quite well-known and many of its alumni move on to film careers in Los Angeles. The idea is that as an undergraduate you volunteer to write music for student film projects and get your name out that way. (There are a zillion opportunities to do this, trust me. In fact, the composers end up being the picky ones, because usually the film students are just desperate!) I suppose that this idea holds at any school with a strong film program, but I know it's particularly true at USC.

Ask me if there is anything else you'd like to know.