Transposition

I never *got* transposition until it just somehow came to me after an epiphany that one must write the score's parts up a certain number of half-steps. (Just for clarification, I speak of instrument transpositions such as Clarinet in B-flat) Ever since I've been trying to figure out a solid method on how to explain the concept of transposition and how to teach it in such a way that the student comprehends it. Every time I've explained it so far, there is always a "huh?" moment and I often have to do it again. Is it me or is it transpositions nature of being somewhat nebulous?

I bring it up because transposition will be a major part of the orchestration masterclass and I'm currently writing that particular section right now. Anyone have any methods they use in teaching it? OR how did you learn about how it works, or did it just come to you?

I don't teach, but I believe that an important part of understading transposing instruments and eliminating the "huh?" part is explaining the reasons behind them - acoustical, notational, historical, mechanical - in some condensed form.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposing_instrument

Good topic! It is often confusing but I think the simplest way to remember the rules of transposition is to memorize the key of each instrument and know that if you play a written C on a transposing instrument then it sounds as the key (you also have to memorize the octave that the note will appear in). Maybe that's not so eloquent, so, as you know, if you play a C on a Bb trumpet it will sound as a Bb; if you play a C on an Eb alto saxophone it will sound as an Eb, etc.... Then you can derive whatever you need from there.

Of course if you're new to transposition this seems ridiculous. Why not write everything as it sounds? You can explain to students that some instruments don't neatly fit on one staff (too many leger lines or what have you) so they are easier to read at a transposition. And I'm sure there are a number of interesting historical reasons for transposing instruments (other than the fact that some music passages are easier to play on, say, a Bb trumpet rather than a C trumpet while allowing the performer to keep the same fingerings).

Good topic! It is often confusing but I think the simplest way to remember the rules of transposition is to memorize the key of each instrument and know that if you play a C on a transposing instrument then it sounds as the key (you also have to memorize the octave that the note will appear in). I probably didn't explain that great, but, as you know, if you play a C on a Bb trumpet it will sound as a Bb; if you play a C on an Eb alto saxophone it will sound as an Eb, etc.... Then you can derive whatever you need from there.

See, that's how I've always seen it done too. The problem I have with that is what good is that in E-flat major? One would have to transpose to C major then to the transposing key then back to the different between the first two. OR transpose by the interval difference between the key and C. But what about atonal/non-key pieces? How does one account for that?

My current strategy is going to be teaching it by interval though not sure yet.

Of course if you're new to transposition this seems ridiculous. Why not write everything as it sounds? You can explain to students that some instruments don't neatly fit on one staff (too many leger lines or what have you) so they are easier to read at a transposition. And I'm sure there are a number of interesting historical reasons for transposing instruments (other than the fact that some music passages are easier to play on, say, a Bb trumpet rather than a C trumpet while allowing the performer to keep the same fingerings).

That I'm definitely going to get in to. I mention plainly that transposition seems ridiculous on the surface, but there are many good reasons to do so and I list and explain them one by one.

I always just think in terms of intervals. I usually don't think of the key at all. As a string player, you're taught to think intervals in reading the staffs of other string parts (violists, for instance, are taught all three clefs since some literature requires fast transposition - or at least it did).

"Play a C, sound your key."

I agree with how Black Orpheus and Robin approach as being the simplest. If an instrument plays a "C" on their instrument, the actual note that comes out is the key of the instruments. So, if a Bb instrument plays C, they Get Bb, Therefore the written is higher than sounding by a Major second (or an extra octave in some cases). I think it helps to remember that written is higher than sounding in almost all cases as well...

I agree with how Black Orpheus and Robin approach as being the simplest. If an instrument plays a "C" on their instrument, the actual note that comes out is the key of the instruments. So, if a Bb instrument plays C, they Get Bb, Therefore the written is higher than sounding by a Major second (or an extra octave in some cases). I think it helps to remember that written is higher than sounding in almost all cases as well...

Key word here is almost. I'm looking for a system that is always.

Well, for whether the sounding pitch is higher or lower there simply isn't a system. You can either go by benixiwf's "almost all" (too bad Eb-Clarinets are so commonly used though), or just learn all of the cases individually.

Ah man, this transposition talk reminds me of some rather confusing episodes! I started learning to play horn at nine and my teacher, not wanting to make stuff too complex for me at first, failed to tell me that what he had taught me on the horn as a C was something different than the C on a piano. So, right after my first lesson I went home, eager to try making those tones. Since I wanted to make sure I was doing it all right I always checked my tones against the piano, of course! Only to discover that I simply failed at playing a "C" on the horn. Again and again. And when I told my teacher about my problems hitting a C in my next lesson he was clueless to where my problem was, neither had my parents any clue on what was going on, so it took quite a few weeks until the solution was finally found! (I probably don't have to say that teaching was neither something this teacher was especially gifted at, nor something he probably particularly enjoyed. He might have made the right decision when he gave up teaching a few years later and concentrated on his orchestra job - in which I find him absolutely brilliant, by the way.)

But back on topic: Aside from the question on how to explain transposition (for which a number of good ideas were given, although I admit it's a difficult topic), I just wanted to raise the question on how exactly transposition practice in notation is going to be covered. The main problem there are some completely different practices that exist here, none of which have unquestioned precedence over the others. Namely the practices of:

- Transposing all transposing instruments by key, i.e. giving them the appropriate key signatures for the key they are transposing to. This seems to be a trend amongst many younger tonal composers, but has been especially established in film music, band music, and music for school orchestras. This is also what Finale and (I think) Sibelius do by default.

- Transposing all instruments by key except horns, trumpets, and some others (cornets etc.), which are notated without key signatures and transposed chromatically note by note. This is the traditional notation (and no, not just from the time when natural instruments where used), and is taught and used widely as how it's "supposed to be done".

- Transposing all instruments by key only except horns, which are transposed chromatically. That's how I learned it, and it's what I've seen being taught a lot as well. This especially reflects the habits of classical orchestral instrumentalists, amongst whom most hornists are much more used to reading in various transpositions than to read in keys. Of course, you'd still write everything in F, but always without key signatures.

I think there are perfectly valid reasons for all of the above, so I think at least the first two variants should be presented in a lesson about transposition, leaving judgement of what they consider optimal to the students themselves - rather than indoctrinating them in a specific form that merely reflects the personal opinion of the teacher.

And of course, last but not least, the question of writing transposed scores vs. concert pitch scores. This, again, is something that needs to be presented as a decision to make, with pros and cons either way, but not prescribed.

Yes to that point, "almost" can't really be changed in that instance, it is just that...

I dont think it needs to be overcomplicated. No matter what the key signature says, the transposition is the same..