Diatonic Scale

I've realized that most music on this forum is composed using diatonic scales. What are exactly your reasons for resorting to this scale? What makes it so attractive to you and more useful than other scales?

:blink:

:huh:

Is something unclear? :hmmm:

So are you asking why people here mostly write with western scales instead of say slendro or swara? If so, maybe because for most people's purposes here it's convenient.

So are you asking why people here mostly write with western scales instead of say slendro or swara? If so, maybe because for most people's purposes here it's convenient.

That's not true. I've asked only about the DIATONIC scale,which is only one of many many scales available in 12TET.

Well, Slendro isn't much available in 12-TET.

I think most people use a diatonic scale here ( as opposed to Pentatonic or Octatonic, for example) because it easily mixes with functional harmony.

The "problem" with the other scales is that in the other scales, chords and certain important scale degrees are missing if one is trying to approach the scale with a "functional harmony" approach. For example, in the Pentatonic scale, you are missing a leading tone, which severely impedes any traditional Dominant to Tonic motions.

Also, diatonic scales provide a more accessible sound than the other, less traditional scales. While this is perhaps much less important in pure "art music" (a term that I sometimes have issue with to be honest, but that's off topic), much of what people post here falls into the "soundtrack" category of music, which generally requires rather accessible music (horror and thriller movies/games being an exception, as they often make use of very dissonant, sometimes atonal, soundtracks), since you do not want to distract from the work which you are accompanying.

Personally, I've experimented with both pentatonic and Octatonic. I know that, of these two scales, I much prefer the Octatonic because, while you sacrifice the dominant scale degree, you can still have a leading tone, which makes contrapuntal writing easier, in my opinion.

I think that's a pretty mundane question really. Most, if not all, of the composers here are western or have had a western training in music. In the west, we mainly use diatonic scales (note, I left it pretty vague). Most scales, even non-western, have origins with diatonic scales - I only know of one scale that isn't inherently diatonic (though it's origins are). So, I'm not exactly sure what your question is meaning. :unsure:

I think that's a pretty mundane question really. Most, if not all, of the composers here are western or have had a western training in music. In the west, we mainly use diatonic scales (note, I left it pretty vague). Most scales, even non-western, have origins with diatonic scales - I only know of one scale that isn't inherently diatonic (though it's origins are). So, I'm not exactly sure what your question is meaning. :unsure:

Well, most contemporary Classical music I know doesn't use Diatonic scales but rather constantly employs the full chromatic scale,or even freely all kinds of pitches(microtones) there are. Also I don't see too much connection between for example the scales of limited transposition in 12TET and the diatonic scale.

Yes,it's true that even most non-western scales are related to diatonicism. That actually makes the question,why so many people like composing with this scale, even more interesting.

It depends on where your from and what your cultural influences are. A person in Malaysia, while using scales with roots in an earlier musical language, has a different definition of what a scale is in relation to say a person in Germany.

Are you asking why most people here write tonal music or why they use diatonic scales? Because there is a huge difference. And, to be honest, using a scale isn't going to guarantee anything about how a piece is going to sound. I just think you're being somewhat unclear.

And it's also a pretty simple question either way. Most people are interested in classical music 1650 - 1900. Almost all of that music uses diatonic scales. So they imitate what they like. I'm interested in mostly post-1900 classical music where diatonic scales are used in much less frequency and with much more capriciousness. So I don't write in diatonic scales (at least, not very much) Simple subject is simple.

I've asked only about the DIATONIC scale,which is only one of many many scales available in 12TET.

Can you elaborate?

Because, to me, there's only "diatonic" and "chromatic" scales available in 12TET.

Can you explan what you mean by "the Diatonic" scale?

Why do you keep refering to a diatonic scale as 'this scale' as if there were only one diatonic scale in the whole world?

oh scraggy itsMICROTONAL SHORYUKEN!!!!!!1one

So what is this thread about? Complaining about using cmajor? :>

Can you elaborate?

Because, to me, there's only "diatonic" and "chromatic" scales available in 12TET.

Can you explan what you mean by "the Diatonic" scale?

By "the Diatonic scale", I mean the scale that results from taking seven pitches a perfect fifth apart and putting them into an octvave.

Other scales in 12TET that are not diatonic are for example the scales of limited transposition(Whole-tone scale, octatonic scale...), or the enigmatic scale.

Wait, is this supposed to be a parody of the serialism thread?

bahahah :lol:

By "the Diatonic scale", I mean the scale that results from taking seven pitches a perfect fifth apart and putting them into an octvave.

So.... you're scalloping about anything that uses any of the modes of the major scale?

Why?

...

Other scales in 12TET that are not diatonic are for example the scales of limited transposition(Whole-tone scale, octatonic scale...), or the enigmatic scale.

What about the harmonic or melodic minor scales? Do you have a problem with those too?

:blink:

What's your point?

The diatonic scales appears to be special in the fact that it is "well-formed" and a MOS (or "Moment of Symetry") Scale. That is, it is composed of two functional step sizes (the major and minor second), and it can be generated from a continuous stack of fifths. There seems to be something special about scales with only two perceptual step sizes that makes them functionally appealing, and the same is true for scales that are made specifically from stacks of fifths (like, also, the pentatonic and chromatic scales). If you are comparing the diatonic scale to other prime scales like harmonic major, harmonic minor, double harmonic, or melodic, which either have more than two step sizes or cannot be created from a continuous stack of fifths, then those are likely the reasons we find it easiest to compose and play tonal music in the diatonic scale instead.

Really good site:

http://www.tonalcentre.org/Scales.html

John M

I don't understand your last sentence. Most music in common practice tonality rarely uses natural minor. It's almost always melodic minor for, well, the melodic aspects of a piece, and harmonic minor for harmonical aspects (respectively other weird mixtures).

I don't understand your last sentence. Most music in common practice tonality rarely uses natural minor. It's almost always melodic minor for, well, the melodic aspects of a piece, and harmonic minor for harmonical aspects (respectively other weird mixtures).

That's a good point. When I say functionally appealing, I think that may apply most to functional melody, and not as much to harmony. In fact, I've found that even a scale of completely microtonally dissonant intervals, as long as it repeats at the octave and contains only two moderately sized step sizes, will function very well melodically. What will then fail to function easily is harmony, so the concepts of Well Formed and MOS scales' determining functional stability should perhaps be applied only to the melodic function of a piece, and then that scale's intervals' approximation of just intervals would then be the best judge of it's harmonic function?

John Moriarty

...I just don't understand why people are still insisting on saying "the diatonic scale".

That doesn't mean anything!!

...I just don't understand why people are still insisting on saying "the diatonic scale".

That doesn't mean anything!!

Shush rob, don't turn this into an argument about rhetoric and semantics! I mean jesus, nevermind how correct you are, let's not talk about TERMINOLOGY!!!! Anything but THAT, RIGHT GUYS?

GUYS???

The diatonic scales appears to be special in the fact that it is "well-formed" and a MOS (or "Moment of Symetry") Scale.

Oh no, not this guy again. :<

And FYI, all the diatonic scales I know are not well-formed at all! They're all uneven and scraggy, I wonder if we're talking about the same "diatonic scales!" Cuz golly gee that sure would be funny if there was a problem with the usage of our terminology!

But that can't happen! Not on the internet!

Much less on THIS forum. No sir.

Read: Every day, same DAMN thing.

hehe, i actually would use, half diminished scales, whole tones, pentatonic, not to mention harmonic minor and melodic minor, but that's because i'm a young composer. just listen to thelonius monk man, he can compose in any interval system.

here is some:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2s6LZUdYaU