YC Design Prototype

I'm starting to see where the other member's opinions are coming to play here. You're begging for our opinions but you're warning us beforehand that you're only going to act on the ones YOU like. I'm not saying the entire site must look like an ocean, but if you look at the votes above, it's pretty clear that not everyone is happy with the brown. (Of, course very few people voted as well, but that is besides the point.) Anyways, I think it's wrong to make the entire site have to put up with a color because you feel it's what trademarks the site? Colors don't trademark this site. The people and the music do. The whole world is not going to end if you change the colors of this site, but it's what you're making it out to be. I'm not going to leave YC if you continue with the fall harvest theme, I will throw a mini scallop-fit, but I'll stay. My point is, I feel, (and i'm sure members will agree/disagree) that in several areas in this situation that you are holding the site back. You claim that you want our opinions, but you're only going to act on the ones that YOU see fit. I haven't talk to James personally, but looking through some of the threads on here, it's clear that he's in it for the people. He's responded to every suggestion, said why/or why not it would/would not work, and has been helpful. On the other hand, every time someone brings something to your attention, it seems like you result to petty excuses and we hear the same lines in almost every thread. "Oh, I'll address that." "Oh, it will be better with the updates" I don't mean any disrespect in this reply, my point is if you're going to spend the time and the money to rebuild the site, lets make the entire community happy, not just Chopin.

For a second there I thought those links had taken me to my facebook wall.

For a second there I thought those links had taken me to my facebook wall.

In your opinion, is this a good or bad thing?

Not good or bad, but not something the site would benefit from.

I don't want another facebook, I come here for the forums and the music.

I'm starting to see where the other member's opinions are coming to play here. You're begging for our opinions but you're warning us beforehand that you're only going to act on the ones YOU like. I'm not saying the entire site must look like an ocean, but if you look at the votes above, it's pretty clear that not everyone is happy with the brown. (Of, course very few people voted as well, but that is besides the point.) Anyways, I think it's wrong to make the entire site have to put up with a color because you feel it's what trademarks the site? Colors don't trademark this site. The people and the music do. The whole world is not going to end if you change the colors of this site, but it's what you're making it out to be. I'm not going to leave YC if you continue with the fall harvest theme, I will throw a mini scallop-fit, but I'll stay. My point is, I feel, (and i'm sure members will agree/disagree) that in several areas in this situation that you are holding the site back. You claim that you want our opinions, but you're only going to act on the ones that YOU see fit. I haven't talk to James personally, but looking through some of the threads on here, it's clear that he's in it for the people. He's responded to every suggestion, said why/or why not it would/would not work, and has been helpful. On the other hand, every time someone brings something to your attention, it seems like you result to petty excuses and we hear the same lines in almost every thread. "Oh, I'll address that." "Oh, it will be better with the updates" I don't mean any disrespect in this reply, my point is if you're going to spend the time and the money to rebuild the site, lets make the entire community happy, not just Chopin.

Spot on again!

I think the first thing to do is to change the font. Most designers tend to consider extensive use of Times New Roman as a sign of bad taste. Thanks to its official and booky look, it's good for documents, but not so much for websites. I suppose Arial is OK for texts / forum posts, perhaps, since it is easy to read, though not so much for the overall design, but is still possible. But buttons, links, etc. tend to look somewhat ugly with Times New Roman, since the branches of the font make the site look busier and harsher, so to speak, and not so appealing to the eye. For example, the links just above the shout box look quite ugly and disturbing to me. Tahoma as well as Verdana tend to look more beautiful, comfortable, balanced and attractive to the eye. I would even suggest using Tahoma by default for the forum posts. Between these two, Tahoma is better for texts, since it tends to be easier for the eye to follow texts in Tahoma than in Verdana. The lattest is perhaps suitable for buttons and links. If you look at Facebook, you'll notice that almost everything is in Tahoma. Also, I think that combining different, contrasting fonts is not a good choice either, since this disturbs the overall balance. Arial and Times New Roman are as contrasting as they can be. More sites to consider for their design: http://www.classical.net , http://www.apassion4jazz.net

As for colours and placement, I'll post later, perhaps.

Hope this post is useful.

I think people are misunderstanding me. When I said "follow my specs", this is in the event I hire someone from this site to help with the design. My specs translates to a combination of what I know to be best practices (such as utilizing a slim header at the top, simplified navigation, no actual pictures, soft colors) and taking the community's opinions.

As far as the design, I'm not only looking for opinions, I'm looking for expertise to implement these aggregated ideas into a reality. I can appropriately direct someone based on the slew of ideas thrown in here, but does anyone have the expertise to apply any of this into actual practice? If not, this is the actual reason why we are having this discussion. I've asked people on this site before if anyone would like to actually help with this process (even paid help). But there is one thing you should realize. Although people are full of suggestions and quick to criticize, what makes it very difficult for me is that when it comes to actual implementation, it doesn't seem anyone wants to be a part of this process.

With that said, be assured that I will be taking everything here into strong consideration. The new design has not even been touched upon yet, all I showed you was a prototype of how I see parts of a profile, and info page laid out.

My specs translates to a combination of what I know to be best practices...

lol. From past expierence I doubt you know what best practices are. Besides, designers would know better than you and be miles ahead of the current trends too. That's why they're paid very large sums of money, because they actually know what they're talking about.

it doesn't seem anyone wants to be a part of this process.

Short of studying web design I think this is the best we can do, feedback.

Short of studying web design I think this is the best we can do, feedback.

Mmm, well said.

As far as the design, I'm not only looking for opinions, I'm looking for expertise to implement these aggregated ideas into a reality. I can appropriately direct someone based on the slew of ideas thrown in here, but does anyone have the expertise to apply any of this into actual practice?

I hate to state the obvious but we are composers - the last time I touch a website design was when I was 15 and that was basic html :D If I had the time to study and learn the codes needed to design this site - by now, you would have had a couple of samples done by me to show what I am talking about because I am not trying to be critical but the only way I can comment is in context of what you have post.

Why don't you try some IPB Forums for suggestions on what we could do? Where we are geeks for music, they are geeks for website design and as for specifics on how to accommodate our needs and they probably have some idea of how to approach a modern design. If I didn't think I would be stepping on your toes, I would describe my idea for the site to one of the skinners on there so I can show you with an actual example what I would consider a modern design.

One last thing, that post reads as one desperate excuse after another for us to get off your back about this. Let me please remind me that you asked for suggestions, we complied. The only reason we are in this position is because you have repeated ignored our ideas and gone full steam with your own. I spent 90 mins earlier on a big long post, the same amount of time I have spent on others with suggestions. You just avoided that post and replied to Tokke's post which read as the biggest bunch of bull I have read in a long time. Yeah, your using IPB 3.0 - a recent software - but that does not mean the site is modern. Rebuilding the site from the ground so it is actually a cohesive, modern, user focused site would not kill it and is actually (from my understanding) what many of us want. This site is slowly dying because its isolated, it does nothing to link to others for the promotion of our music (which is why I don't upload music at the moment) and the ideas you are steaming forward with do not fill me with confidence that it will.

I might be a little bit out of line here but I am fed up of thinking your blaming the faults with this site and your inept behavior in getting it solved as our fault. You are the owner of the site so I have no right to say you must do it my way, but when you repeatedly do not listen to the suggestions put forward or even comment on them you can't expect the people who spent the time willing to comment not to get annoyed. I am still waiting for a reason to why you pushed ahead with the feed idea and not considered the watch idea - a suggestion that has been on the site for several days and which James has commented about. Surely, I am allowed to asked why a suggestion was ruled unsuitable - that didn't suddenly become against the rules.

Finally, you said earlier in Shoutbox "you guys love beating me up." For the record, once more, I am only being critcal of you and the way your handling this whole process because people are making suggestions and you're making excuses constantly about why something can't be done. Take a leaf out of James' book, engage with us, communicate with us and then I wouldn't have to "beat you up" which until this post right now, was not my intention.

Since starting writing this message - two people have already posted saying the same sort of thing as me. That is how slowly I type! Please appreciate that, for once.

Rebuilding the site from the ground so it is actually a cohesive, modern, user focused site would not kill it and is actually (from my understanding) what many of us want.

Rebuilding it makes little sense though. We have all the architecture in place, we just have to design it correctly now. How do you propose to "rebuild" the site from ground up? It will kill the site because redoing something over and over again will waste time and money.

This site is slowly dying because its isolated, it does nothing to link to others for the promotion of our music (which is why I don't upload music at the moment) and the ideas you are steaming forward with do not fill me with confidence that it will.

This site is designed to promote your music to each other and share ideas. I think we have to master this first and grow the website before we branch out and promote music to music publishers or classical artists. Believe me, the ultimate goal is to have an influence in the classical music industry so that we can be a part of the publishing process, and influence recordings/performances of works on this site. But one thing at a time...the only way to get recognized is by making improvements little by little until we get it right.

I am not sure why you are arguing with me, as I have said I am taking everything in this thread into consideration :) The designs I showed you were just prototypes, not mockups.

Rebuilding it makes little sense though. We have all the architecture in place, we just have to design it correctly now. How do you propose to "rebuild" the site from ground up? It will kill the site because redoing something over and over again will waste time and money.

BOOM! There's the buzz words. Nice to have some honesty finally. No more BS please. :)

Tokkemon, Apple Charlie, could you elaborate on how you see that the underlying codebase for the site is faulty? I'm not sure I fully understand your point of view in that regard.

@Km7: Times isn't suitable for a lot of work because it's a narrow font designed for newspapers, too. Overall, I dislike serif fonts for websites unless they're supposed to look very formal and professional (even then, professionalism doesn't preclude careful choice of sans-serif!). Furthermore, for screen, unlike print, sans-serif fonts are more readable due to limited resolution at smaller font sizes.

Tokkemon, Apple Charlie, could you elaborate on how you see that the underlying codebase for the site is faulty? I'm not sure I fully understand your point of view in that regard.

My points have nothing to do with the codebase. I have already gone through in detail as to what I would like to see and my suggestions in the other design thread but to summarize very briefly where I stand.

• The forum looks dated. While professional looking, it is more of a site for "older" generations than young people. Aspects I dislike of the current design include the fonts, that violin and colours. I would like the option to change colours to suit me and the colour scheme that Chopin wants/likes.
  
• The Profiles do not allow for personal touches or information - its very restricted. One of the suggestions that I have discussed in detail with James, is tabbing the profiles so we can make like composer bios, allow music samples to be put on there to showcase the music, link to composers music (in a more subtile way to Chopin). The Composer Bios would be similar in style to the User Profiles on Wiki so that the site is works in sync with everything better.
  
• No facebook clone. I don't want this site to become a facebook clone while a lot of the suggestions by Chopin being put forward have been very facebook in origin. My personal opinion is that we, as a community, can find other ways to stand out without resorting to such mesures and I put forward several ideas at the time (the post was one of those ignored by Chopin) about how we could improve the site without them. The feed idea for example seems extreme and over the top for the site, I put forward a Watch idea in the Feed System.
  
• The navigation of the site is weird. I come here for the forum but to get to the forum/shoutbox, you have to go through the homepage which does nothing, in my opinion to benefit the site.
  

Where my problem comes into play is that the prototypes show nothing major in relation to the suggestions I or others have put forward. I am happy to work on ideas in conjunction with the admins and other members. However, if Chopin does not respond with say "We cannot do that because .... but perhaps we could do this, what do you think?" or "Yes, that's a good idea maybe we can doing it like ..." or even "I hate that idea because ..." then the say that we, as members, have is non existent because all we are hearing is our suggestions are being read. Read is fine but engaging in a conversation so we know that its being read and what others think is the whole purpose of a thread. Wouldn't you agree?

The forum looks dated. While professional looking, it is more of a site for "older" generations than young people. Aspects I dislike of the current design include the fonts, that violin and colours. I would like the option to change colours to suit me and the colour scheme that Chopin wants/likes.

I agree the site is too "old" looking, and I will be working to modernize, and make the site look more inviting to younger people. This is why I make use of that fun font in the prototype. I think that using that font will help portray a site for a younger generation, what do you think? Also, what colors do you like?

The Profiles do not allow for personal touches or information - its very restricted. One of the suggestions that I have discussed in detail with James, is tabbing the profiles so we can make like composer bios, allow music samples to be put on there to showcase the music, link to composers music (in a more subtile way to Chopin). The Composer Bios would be similar in style to the User Profiles on Wiki so that the site is works in sync with everything better.

I will add an "about me, or biography" field to the profile, no problem there. As for your other suggestion about music samples, can you elaborate? Are you asking to allow for hyperlinking within a profile? I will tell you that I am adding a function so that composers can "recommend" works to other composers within profiles.

No facebook clone. I don't want this site to become a facebook clone while a lot of the suggestions by Chopin being put forward have been very facebook in origin. My personal opinion is that we, as a community, can find other ways to stand out without resorting to such mesures and I put forward several ideas at the time (the post was one of those ignored by Chopin) about how we could improve the site without them. The feed idea for example seems extreme and over the top for the site, I put forward a Watch idea in the Feed System.

There would be a major difference between Facebook's feed system and our feed system. I don't think the "watch" idea would really work well "alone", because people would have to be proactive in choosing threads to watch. Instead, why not display threads to people whom you have a relationship with (either as a fan, or as a friend or both)? Now, as for your "watch" idea in the feed system, I could implement this as a part of our automatic feed, and figure out a way to make it "easier" to watch a thread. As of now, this feature seems to be missed by a lot of people here.

The ways our feed system will be different from Facebook's is that we have fans and friends, and will display "forum threads, recommendations and music uploads" in the feed, which is quite different from Facebook's idea. With Facebook, you only see friends, or friends of friends. With YC, you only see threads/compositions of your friend or fan, but you will be able to view the entire community's response to a forum thread or music upload thread. Sure, the concept may be similar, but I believe this is an effective way to promote our compositions and forum posts to our friends and fans. As far as formatting issues go, I agree we need a designer's touch so that it doesn't look like Facebook.

The navigation of the site is weird. I come here for the forum but to get to the forum/shoutbox, you have to go through the homepage which does nothing, in my opinion to benefit the site.

Navigation, layout, and integration of the site should be much improved with the perceived layout/skin updates. The homepage will reflect what the site is about (to a guest), but to a logged in user, it will take him/her to a user feed, where the user can view "watched or auto" feeds regarding new content updates such as thread posts, composition uploads, replies to threads/works, etc.

Apple Charlie: I see. I misunderstood "from the ground up" to mean including the site's custom codebase and integration - I think because Tokkemon was talking about that beforehand.

(The below is intended for both you and chopin.)

As far as the profiles go, integration with the Wiki profiles might be interesting if the wiki remains. e.g. have the fields auto-populate a section and leave other sections (bio, custom sections?, etc.) up to the user to customize. I realize the implementation would require backend integration with the wiki.

As for the Feed, I'm not too opposed to it, as long as what is displayed and from whom is configurable. I'm not sure, chopin, what exactly your scope for the content would be, but I would strictly limit it to new music and comments from people you're following, friends and recommendations, as well as comments to your own works (all optional, of course). Please DO distinguish friends from following composers - just because I like someone's music doesn't mean I know them personally.

I think it's undeniable that the idea is analogous to Facebook's, though. Nonetheless, I think the idea is effective in this context - as composers, all of you should know that true originality is nearly impossible to achieve, and I think the same can be said of UI design.

Also, chopin, as an additional note, don't neglect email notification options for features where it might be useful and not already exist (e.g. not integrated to the forums). I, for one, rely on that.

Colour wise, I am girl so go figure - I'm a pastels, blues, purples type of girl. I am not saying brown must go but I would like the option to have colours of my choice.

The music sample idea was that as part of showcasing composers that the user could select a piece or pieces from their uploads and that would appear in a playable form on the profile to give viewers an idea of their music - so for example, a guy named Joe is talking to me in Shoutbox, I can click on their name and see their own profile that they have customized with their information and hear a sample of their music. Going further on his profile, I can see his linked to his music - maybe as another tab so it doesn't take up room on the page. Its all together - its works together.

I still stand by the Watch idea rather that the Feed. My logic is that people have indicated that they don't want a feed. If we go with a Watch System then the proactive nature allows those who want to use the forum as a forum to carry on as normal. Those who want to have a site that is all singing and dance have that option too. My system wouldn't be just about threads and posts - as I described:

I go to James H's profile, I click beneath the find posts/find thread options "Watch Posts" and I get a notification when he posts. I click "Watch Music", I get one he posts a piece. IF James H though does not like me for some reason, he can "Block User" from receive said notifications (and in this case the user doesn't see the options to click "Watch Posts" or "Watch Music"). If James H hates everyone he can opt out of the watch system and not have anyone watch him.

This would also solve privacy issues because while we are a community, I suspect there are members would be concerned about being watched constantly. What is your opinion on privacy issues?

Guys, let's try to keep in mind that Chopin has invested a great deal of money in this site. As such, the final decisions are his to make. He's asking for input, which is more than most others would do, and he'll apply what he learns from this input insofar as it is consistent with his long-term vision of what he wants this site to be. He's also learning as he goes, and in my opinion he's doing a great job.

That said, I don't see what's wrong with the design as it is. Ultimately, it's a matter of taste and aesthetics. It may not look slick and glitzy like Apple's site, say, but it does look professional and dignified, with a little bit of whimsy lest it appear that we're taking ourselves too seriously. Add too much whimsy (the new font, for example), and it looks a good deal less professional.

EDIT: I'm not saying this to be an arse-kisser. I have nothing to gain thereby. If I hated the way the site looked, I'd say so, but I don't. And what I said about Chopin being financially well-invested in this site is nothing but stating the truth...a truth I think a lot of us forget.

Wow, I leave for one physics class and come back to an hour's worth of reading on this thread. I'm impressed. Actually, this is quite contradictory. Until now we've had to force people to give us feedback (this is why Chopin conducted those surveys and why he's always posting polls). So keep the discussion flowing please and thanks.

Now first let's all listen to J. Lee because he is our YC father and possesses infinite wisdom. Also because what he says is correct - chopin has put a LOT of effort into this site, financially and certainly otherwise. Just because we're in a bit of a rut right now doesn't mean he hasn't been devoted. After all just because you can be devoted to something doesn't mean it will turn out well in the end every time. I would also like to shoot down the idea that chopin is rather closed to opinions. I talk to him personally (... via FB) rather often and it is true that he strongly considers all ideas posted in threads like these and what you guys say goes through to his noggin. He just needs to participate in the discussions a little more directly more often. Because when he doesn't, he shoots down ideas without having heard more argument in favour of them.

Alright, now to this thread, chronologically:

Tokke - We can't build from ground up as you describe it. We had vB and now we've moved to IPB because it is superiour in gateway technology - it was easier to combine Elgg networking with IPB forums than it ever would have been with vB (not that you ever actually mentioned vB yourself). We miss a few things from vB, but this software is more powerful than it, bottom line. Also, with our last designers/programmers we successfully coded almost everything we need to complete the site. Like chopin did say, there are uploading bugs only rarely and the uploading process CAN be altered at this point from where it currently is. If you'd like specific alterations, speak up, don't just complain that it's buggy or doesn't work. Fact is, it's been working pretty damned well. Why throw this away and restart from the beginning? We'll probably end up with the same problems in different flavours. IPB is a powerful forum software, IPB wiki is well-implemented, the music uploading directory and profiles are also pretty well integrated, you can't deny it (and if you really can, specific issues, please) It seems the problem everybody has with this site is the UI - the visual appearance or aesthetic design. The paintjob, if you will. That's what this prototype of chopin's is. We're taking what we have that already works as a strong foundation and relaying it in a more intuitive manner. THIS is what we need the feedback with. Technically what chopin has now is an HTML equivalent of the step I took of drawing sketches in GIMP and posting them and people liked them, so I find it odd that people are oppressing this preliminary prototype so strongly.

That's a pretty small market and their wants shouldn't vary too much

Instead of focusing on a small market of geeky techy composers, we should aim to get this site to the point where any young composer would find it useful or fun to be a part of. There's a small composition department in my uni and not a single major is a member on this site or any other site for that matter. I've asked them if they thought about it and they express views that differ drastically from members on YC. Simply put, just because we're all composers doesn't mean we all have similar tastes and wants.

Next point is the Watch idea of Apple Charlie's. I thought about this and I realised that a "watch" feature is just a "feed" with one minor difference - you choose specifically what you want fed. I think people are associating "Feed" with "Facebook", which is too bad because the feature isn't specific to Facebook. If you think about it, it's quite a useful idea and I'm going to repeat my little vision again. A member of YC can have a private Feed (or "watch". When the user "watches" a thread, it's posts show up in this "feed." That is to say, when somebody replies to it, the feed says "JoeBloe replied to the thread thread_name_as_link". When you "watch" a composer/other member, when they post a new thread or composition it shows up in the feed that they did so. Naturally, by access of a tab like we implementing in the profile pages, we can full a site-wide feed. It displays everything without having to "watch" it for those that would find it useful. Then of course, there's a personal feed, which displays notifications (could just be called a "Notification feed" or something intuitive). Notifications consist of people commented on a piece you posted, people posting comments on your profile wall (which can consist of sharing compositions by link, I believe sharing by embed is ridiculous and unnecessary, we're not that lazy), and possibly other things.

So simple conclusion to that mess, you can "watch" a composer (and show up as among their "Fans), you can "watch" a thread (and by inclusion, a composition posted by someone) and items you watched can appear in your watched items "Feed." Not that hard, just don't get worked up in the terminology and blaming facebook for being the mother of all e-social ideas.

Aspects I dislike of the current design include the fonts, that violin and colours. I would like the option to change colours to suit me and the colour scheme that Chopin wants/likes.

Just to pry, you don't like these fonts? I believe we're on Arial for the forum, which I approve of (think I prefer Tahoma, which is close) and on the network we ARE on Times, which is an awful choice for this site. Violin... you don't like the idea of having a violin at all or you don't like this particular graphic? Colours, you don't like the brown, I got that. I bugged chopin about this and I think I may have got him to go along, but I'm not certain. (for the record I'm pro-brown) In effect, we use the same formatting file for the whole entire site. We're not doing this with the prototype because... it's not easy, but our future experienced designers no doubt will be able to pull it off. Basically, at the click of a menu, the user can select a new colour (such as maroon/red or blue or purple) and only the formatting file (a .css) is switched. This file is responsible for all the colours sitewide and changing one file makes it possible to recolour the forum, network/homepage, and maybe the wiki too. There. Done.

As far as the profiles go, integration with the Wiki profiles might be interesting if the wiki remains. e.g. have the fields auto-populate a section and leave other sections (bio, custom sections?, etc.) up to the user to customize. I realize the implementation would require backend integration with the wiki.

I think I discussed this with someone before, the idea for integrating the wiki profile is golden, allows the user to format and write their profile page however they like. It would be like an HTML frame pulling the text off the profile on the wiki only nowhere near as crude of a method.

As for the Feed, I'm not too opposed to it, as long as what is displayed and from whom is configurable.

Just touching on this - like I said above with the "Watch" idea, what is displayed is fully and completely controllable by the user. This seems to solve this. Obviously, if I "Watch" Tokkemon, I can select sub-watchables. For instance, if do NOT want to have an item in my feed that says when he starts a new thread on the form, I can unclick that checkmark either for him specifically, or globally.

Please DO distinguish friends from following composers - just because I like someone's music doesn't mean I know them personally.

Facebook is for "friends". YC is for posting, reviewing, browsing compositions, and learning about composing. Rather, YC is for "connections". If we call it "watch" it sounds a LOT less stupid and in conjunction with the watched items feed it would also actually serve a purpose. Ben Stein says "wooooooow."

J. Lee: "I think it's undeniable that the idea is analogous to Facebook's, though. Nonetheless, I think the idea is effective in this context - as composers, all of you should know that true originality is nearly impossible to achieve, and I think the same can be said of UI design."

Just to pry, you don't like these fonts?

Its more of a slight dislike than hate but since I was laying out where I stood, I thought I'd mention it. But I would be willing to stick with these fonts, if it means the new site can be awesome and live up to its potential.

The reason I suggested a Watch system in the first place was because I did not particularly want a feed at all but I am now a tad confused. Are you saying the feed will be as part of our profile (like a private page) which if need be, I can avoid like the black plaque?

Well, chopin seems to think there should be a feed on the profile page. I'm opposed to this, I think we should have one single tabbed "Feed" page. It views everything sitewide - all activity. Then it has the filtered tab for only "watched" content. It's views everything you watched, but it's still technically a feed if you think about it. What I'm saying is that fundamentally "watch = add to my personal feed".

For guests/non-logged in members, the feed page can still be there, it just only has the "global" option.

Barging in as always, I'd have to say I dislike this type of design with a passion. The color choice I found muddy (more contrast maybe, brown with gray or a lighter color?), the layout very cluttered (spacing out all the elements vertically?), the global effect rather goofy. With images, different colors and a more spaced-out layout, I think I'd like it more.

Well, chopin seems to think there should be a feed on the profile page. I'm opposed to this, I think we should have one single tabbed "Feed" page. It views everything sitewide - all activity. Then it has the filtered tab for only "watched" content. It's views everything you watched, but it's still technically a feed if you think about it. What I'm saying is that fundamentally "watch = add to my personal feed".

For guests/non-logged in members, the feed page can still be there, it just only has the "global" option.

I could live your version of this idea. :happy:

I would just like to add that there will be privacy rules based on this discussion. So if you do not wish to view feeds, you would have the ability to turn things off. I also will increase the functionality of our built in "watch" system, so that it will display on the feed. The watch system here, although functional, is not visible enough (unless you opt to receive email notifications). You can even view friends/composers watched content if you wish, but there will be an option to shut that off. Similarly, the user will also have the option to not share certain things. This should solve privacy issues, and here is an example of the prototype privacy dialog pages:

Global Privacy Settings

Profile Settings