Classical music and Film Music

Why do classical composers sometimes look down on film composers?

I don't look down, I just want my music to be appreciated and understood.. I couldn't bring myself to write a theme to a soul-less film when the music I write means so much to me... :$

Sorry if you misunderstood earlier, there are alot of brilliant musicians who wrote and still write film music e.g. Shostakovich and Vaughan Williams both wrote film music.. its just mot for me - hence I shall never be rich haha :')

A lot of film music doesn't have the artistic merit that "Classical music" does. Hence the judgement.

Because 'academically' (I prefer that to classical) composers envy film composers their money and success and wish they could do the same...

A lot of film music doesn't have the artistic merit that "Classical music" does. Hence the judgement.

I expect many film composers feel the exact opposite!

What is "artistic merit" and who decides?!

I've noticed that the standard for film music is much lower than it is for a stand-alone piece

I've noticed that the standard for film music is much lower than it is for a stand-alone piece

Again, I expect many folks who work in the field would disagree...

The standard, in some senses is much higher - not only does the music have to sound good, but it must be relevant and cohesive with with visuals.

;)

Why do classical composers sometimes look down on film composers?

?

Elaborate, please.

Sounds like a troll question.

I've noticed that the standard for film music is much lower than it is for a stand-alone piece

So what about Jerry Goldsmith, Alan Silvestri, Howard Shore, David and Thomas Newman - just to mention some recent folks?

?

Elaborate, please.

Sounds like a troll question.

If I was a troll, I would have been alot more inflammatory by now...

Film music is more commercial. Compared to some concert music, its the equivalent to rock music. Look at some of the biggest film composers out there. Hans Zimmer, James Newton Howard, all used to be part of some sort of rock band.

Why do classical composers sometimes look down on film composers?

Personally, I think it's total crap. As a composer and musician, I have made it my goal to blur the stupid, persistent line between "art music" and "pop music." Art musicians are, deep down, jealous of the huge success of the pop musicians, and feel cheated out of fame, since they view their own musical creations to be much more educated than the creations of the pop musicians. I know this from experience; I attend a small semi-conservatory right now, the music school of Concordia College, and the bitterness towards pop composition is sometimes stifling.

Pop musicians view art musicians as stuffy, pretentious and boring. I experience this during my time in High School, where the average musician just wanted to rock. While there is truth in the views on both sides of the line, both of them make false assumptions, as well. That's why I try my very best to integrate opposing worlds in music. As far as film music goes, I think it's the exact same phenomenon as what I described above.

If I was a troll, I would have been alot more inflammatory by now...

ELABORATE, PLEASE.

This thread could quickly go down the drain, please explain what you meant, or I'm locking this.

Threat taken.

I just mean that when I have talked to classical student composers, there's somewhat of a stigma against film music. One person said "all they do is copy classical pieces into their scores", true might be a bit true for some composers.

what you might hear copied is the orchestration from classical pieces - which is not illegal, and all great concert composers have done that to a greater degree!

Paraphrasing a Jeff Rona quote (look him up, if you don't know the name):

A young concert composer approached me and wanted to show me some of her music, which was really complex. Said she wanted to do film music. Then I (jeff rona) played her some of Mark Ishams stuff and something of that kind, and asked if she would be able to do that kind of music. Her answer was: 'Yeah, but I'ld never put my name on it'. Then I realized, if you're embarrased to write a major chord, film music is not for you.

The way the OP has opened the thread isn't good, in my opinion, since his question contains a generalizing assumption - he assumed that all classical composers look down upon film composers, which is far from true, at least to me.

Another important thing is that lots of people look at film music in a rather narrow-minded fashion. Film music isn't only about orchestral, "classically" inspired works and composers, but about any kind of music that accompanies motion picture - it could be orchestral, but it could also be electronic, ambient, ethno, dance, rock, etc. Film music is much freer when it comes to form and development, because it is much more important to effectively accompany the screen of the moment than to exist on its own. I don't think this makes it inferior. Film composers are expected (or at least, it is recommended) to be capable of diverse musical styles and genres. This isn't so with non-film (classical) composers and some of them are not.

Because 'academically' (I prefer that to classical) composers envy film composers their money and success and wish they could do the same...

And I totally dislike this definition - academic music. It bounds music to academia, while it's not the music that is academic, but the academia that is (or was supposed to be) musical. Definitions like that only show how far the whole academic community has gone with its arrogance, pretentious focus on titles and on ridiculous sense of belonging to a fictitious elite, which it puts above all music and art in general, and also science, if you wish, and deviate away from the essence.

While there is truth in the views on both sides of the line, both of them make false assumptions, as well. That's why I try my very best to integrate opposing worlds in music.

Finally someone who want to do this. And you are not alone.

And I totally dislike this definition - academic music. It bounds music to academia, while it's not the music that is academic, but the academia that is (or was supposed to be) musical. Definitions like that only show how far the whole academic community has gone with its arrogance, pretentious focus on titles and on ridiculous sense of belonging to a fictitious elite, which it puts above all music and art in general, and also science, if you wish, and deviate away from the essence.

Well classical music belongs to an epoque some 200-300 years ago. The composers people refer to when they say 'classical' really means trained composers - academically trained. They don't write 'classical' music as Mozart did.

And I totally dislike this definition - academic music. It bounds music to academia, while it's not the music that is academic, but the academia that is (or was supposed to be) musical. Definitions like that only show how far the whole academic community has gone with its arrogance, pretentious focus on titles and on ridiculous sense of belonging to a fictitious elite, which it puts above all music and art in general, and also science, if you wish, and deviate away from the essence.

Well classical music belongs to an epoque some 200-300 years ago. The composers people refer to when they say 'classical' really means trained composers - academically trained. They don't write 'classical' music as Mozart did.

It's the same reason why any pure artist looks down on the one who bends to any commercial bent. It's an assumption that the person making "poppy" music doesn't enjoy it.

Now, to be fair, film and other commercial musics have other purposes beyond the music itself -- which does make it at least a slightly different thing than "pure" music. It's set up to play on established feelings and evoke something in many cases -- "art" music hasn't necessarily done that in centuries...

Kids! In the film composers of serious music artists, works written for symphony orchestra, sonatas, violin concerts, symphonic poems, etc .... So a film composer, it is very much to do with the classic, or classical music, this is only happening in 21st century ..

Because 'academically' (I prefer that to classical) composers envy film composers their money and success and wish they could do the same...

That's it! :D