Another article on modern music.

I didn't just wake up one day and decide that I hated modern music. I hear it all the time, because it's modern music; it's all around.

No of course not. You were forced to listen to it for a little bit, decided it was a waste of time and labeled everything crap. Just like everyone else.

Also, I don't really believe you hear it all the time, unless you somehow live in magical land where there are plenty of modern concerts, it gets played on the radio and recordings are easy to find. But then again, if you're hearing it all the time, why aren't you familiar with it? Wouldn't you by now have heard enough that you can actually discern things you like more than others?

The more you listen to a particular aesthetic the more you can actually learn to pick out things you like it in it. I bet all the exceptions you're talking about are neoclassical or conform to things you ALREADY like, and in no way challenge anything you aren't already quite comfortable with.

As for recommending, why? It's YOUR job as a composer to seek out music and composers, isn't it? Go look. Pull up an article on goddamn wikipedia and look up the names, look up the music. Go do your goddamn research. I mean I can name a thousand pieces I like from all over the 20th century, so what? I can do that for every goddamn historical period, it's EXPECTED of a composer to be able to do this. But it's a lot of work, and I guess music isn't that important after all to some people.

When children are born, they appreciate ALL forms of music the same way. As they grow and are cultured by their families and friends and society, they learn to appreciate that which their combined culture (parents, peers, etc)values as far as the arts go. They learn (IIRC) sometime between 5-10 y/o to value tonal versus atonal music.

Of course, anyone can learn to appreciate and broaden their appreciations. I guess it boils down to how open-minded one is.

The more you listen to a particular aesthetic the more you can actually learn to pick out things you like it in it. I bet all the exceptions you're talking about are neoclassical or conform to things you ALREADY like, and in no way challenge anything you aren't already quite comfortable with.

But it's a lot of work, and I guess music isn't that important after all to some people.

Just because I don't share your musical tastes doesn't mean I'm not challenging myself. I give things a chance, and if I don't like it I don't like it. Of course I'm going to label it all crap. It's based on my experience of modern music. It's impossible for me to sit down and listen to every single piece written in the last 100 years, so I listen to what I can and form an opinion based on that. Maybe my opinion will change in the future, but for now my opinion is that I don't like most modern music.

And just because I don't like your music, doesn't mean music isn't important to me. You seem to have the idea in your head that if a person doesn't like every single thing ever created in the world of art, that makes them lazy or whatever. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but music is EXTREMELY important to me. I don't know how many ways I can say it; I give everything a chance, and if I don't like it, I don't like it. It doesn't mean I pretend it doesn't exist, and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean I don't listen to other pieces. I'm not going to lie to you; I don't actively explore information on modern music. That's because it's not of interest to me. I'm not going to try and convince you that I'm right, because I know that would be useless. You have your opinion and I have mine. But don't try and say that music is unimportant to me. I don't give a damn what you think about my tastes or lack of, music is the greatest thing on this planet IMO. I don't care what the genre is, where it was made, when it was made. Yes, some styles interest and connect with me more than others, but reality check time; it's the same with EVERYONE. I doubt there's a person on this planet who can say they liked every single piece of music they've ever heard in their life. If everyone liked EVERYTHING in art, art would serve no purpose IMO. Opinions is what makes art, and if everyone thought exactly the same way, what would be the point of expression?

SSC, please stop being a pretentious hack. That's no way for a so-called "respectable" composer to act, k?

It's not like I've never listened to modern music. I give it a try, and it usually sounds awful to me. Usually. Yes there are exceptions. But they're EXCEPTIONS. I never meant that I've disregarded an entire century of music. I gave it a chance, learned a little bit, and then I came to the conclusions that I listed earlier. Maybe I'm misinformed yes, ignorant of EVERY SINGLE piece of music composed in the last 100 years or so yes, but I've said it before; I didn't just wake up one day and decide that I hated modern music. I hear it all the time, because it's modern music; it's all around.

Of course you didn't wake up not liking Berio, Stockhausen, Babbit, and Poulenc - no one said you did. However, I will venture to opine that your 'listening' excursions probably haven't been for long. Just like with most classical music, you wont get into their 'language' on one or two sittings - and you most certainly wont get into them by constantly self-assuming your going to hate them.

Your comment about this site "regurgitating" Mahler and Beethoven is just as biased and closed minded as any of my statements. I could easily say that you not liking the past periods shows that you didn't take the time to research, and that you're disregarding an entire era of music. But I doubt YOU woke up one day and decided you didn't like older music. Just like myself, you probably gave it a try, listened to various pieces, and came to the conclusion that it wasn't your favorite style, for whatever reason. I don't see how my dislike of modern music makes me close-minded, but if it was the other way around, well then that's alright. There's nothing wrong with hating certain styles of art. This isn't a children's cartoon; we all don't love everything. We all can't stand certain forms of music I'm sure, but that doesn't make us close minded. What does make us close minded is if we've never given those other forms a chance, which I'm sure we all have.

I don't hate any style of music actually. I love Beethoven - listen to him regularly! I also love a lot of music from all the periods of classical music from Peronin to Glass. There are composers I like more than others and composers I like less - to me, it's not so much about the 'period' as it is their individual merits. When I say 'regurgitated' Mahler and Beethoven, I'm referring to writing music that uses the personal language that belongs to that composer. Many on this site, as SSC has said many times before, sacrifice there own personal voice to emulate or 'regurgitate' X composer of the past. As students, I'll be the first to admit, theres nothing wrong with that BUT to grow as a composer... you have to come out of the box and discover your own voice as a composer. You cant just sit in the shadow of you X composer copy. I apologize if that sounds close minded or it sounds like I hate your X composer 'regurgitated' piece but... if I want to hear Beethoven, I'll put in a recording or go see a concert of his work. Ditto with Mahler, Schubert, Schumann, Prokofiev, Smetana, etc.

:o

No I understand what you mean. I completely agree that to start it's alright to emulate another composer, but eventually you have to go your own way. You are also right in that my experience with modern classical musical is limited, but I don't actively try to avoid going to modern concerts. I wont' lie; I do favor more classical oriented concerts, but that once again is because of my tastes. I'm sure it's the same way with you guys; you prefer more modern pieces, but I'm sure you've heard some early work too.

No I understand what you mean. I completely agree that to start it's alright to emulate another composer, but eventually you have to go your own way. You are also right in that my experience with modern classical musical is limited, but I don't actively try to avoid going to modern concerts. I wont' lie; I do favor more classical oriented concerts, but that once again is because of my tastes. I'm sure it's the same way with you guys; you prefer more modern pieces, but I'm sure you've heard some early work too.

That's where your assumptions are kind of flawed. Just because I write in a more 'modern' idiom now doesn't mean that that is the music I love uber alles. My favorite composer, of all time, is Mozart. I have listened to virtually every piece the master wrote AND will probably keep listening to his work well till I die. Does the influence show? Probably. Have I composed and ventured on my own despite my great love for Mozart's music? Absolutely. The truth of the matter is I am a composer and I want those who listen to my music to hear what I have to say. The language I use to do that is my own language - just as the manner I speak or the manner I type, I use the alphabet I am given and make something unique with it - and that's what makes you a composer. That's what Beethoven, Berlioz, Mahler, Wagner, Schubert, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Boulez, Stockhausen, Cage, Glass, and Mozart did.... so why shouldn't we?

Three issues.

1) As an artist, you need to see art, even if it's bad. You need to be a polyglot, even if you'll never speak that language.

2) Working in a style is weak. Period. I can't think of one good composer who simply stuck himself in a style intentionally. Conversely, if it comes out that way through "no fault of the writer" then you can't say that it's immediately bad. However, there's no really effective way to make that distinction.

3) Hating styles of music is touchy. I'll fully admit that I hate standard electric blues -- mmm 4 on the floor same 3 chords, 2-4 chord progressions -- so I tend to avoid it. And I can defend it, too, removal of dissident elements/straightening kinky stuff/etc. But I'm missing out, because I'm missing the people who influenced other music I like (funk, Hendrix, etc) and I have no context for something like James Blood Ulmer's solo records.

And to be fair, that's such a small genre, too. And that's the other half.

4) A question: at what level does homage/influence become regurgitation?

5)

Just because I write in a more 'modern' idiom now doesn't mean that that is the music I love uber alles.

Why the hell aren't you writing what you think is the best music? Obviously if I think noise is bad, I won't include it in my music;

I dunno, maybe i'm intentionally twisting that quote, but I write what I think is cool to hear period. If I don't think it's a technique uber alles, I won't use it. But then again, I'm 100% certain that my class of uber-alles is retarded huge -- maybe that's just pretense talking...

Why the hell aren't you writing what you think is the best music? Obviously if I think noise is bad, I won't include it in my music;

I dunno, maybe i'm intentionally twisting that quote, but I write what I think is cool to hear period. If I don't think it's a technique uber alles, I won't use it. But then again, I'm 100% certain that my class of uber-alles is retarded huge -- maybe that's just pretense talking...

I am writing what I think sounds good/cool to me. I didn't think I needed to qualify that really - I thought that was pretty much known knowledge about me. I've thrown away, deleted, and rewrote so many works of mine.... just due to my own displeasure with the way they sound. Doesn't everyone?

Seems like common sense to just "write what you want to write..."

Seems like common sense that people might accept that you "write what you want to write..."

Seems like common sense that people would be willing to hear "what you want to write..."

...

Academics out there, please explain what's unacceptable about wanting to learn how to "write what you want to write..." or to expect to learn how to write what you want to write at a school, of all places, even if it happens to lean toward popular music or something else that isn't "modern." Why redirect anyone to write music they do not want to write?

For everyone else, yes, we are all free to write whatever we want to write. It's no one's place to sit in judgment of others or to expect anyone to do something they don't want to do... which includes not wanting to listen to and/or write in a "modernist" epoch. So, comments about "challenging yourself" and so forth, well, I'm not the first to say I've listened to many modern works and NOT enjoyed them. How about NOT imposing your views on others if you don't want others to impose their views on you.

Problem this isn't so much about writing music.

It's about not knowing enough to even make an informed decision about what you want to write to begin with. Yeah sure if you're only familiar with a single aesthetic you'll no doubt want to write what you know. This is what I think Jaw means with regurgitating X, you simply don't know enough to do anything else, you can't help it.

You're crippled by your ignorance.

But Ferk said it best:

1) As an artist, you need to see art, even if it's bad. You need to be a polyglot, even if you'll never speak that language.

This, a thousand times this.

There's a huge difference between knowing and understanding music and styles, and wanting to do anything with them. As it often turns out, people who DO learn different techniques and start listening to different music end up using elements of that music. It starts to influence them, even if they "don't like it," they can always rescue stuff from it.

But, like I keep saying, all this requires effort, study, and patience. You need to WILLINGLY go listen to things you KNOW you don't like, you need to go seek out music because it's music and you like music. Music is THAT important to you, is what I'm saying. What ferk said, again, is the best way to say it. If you want to be just some second-rate artist, then fine sure I'm not expecting anything.

Though really, tough luck if you want to be taken seriously. It doesn't matter if you're writing a baroque recreation or whatever, ignorance cripples you as an artist and a composer, there's no doubt or question of it.

It's -extremely- hard to find composers, specially people like Schoenberg, Boulez, etc, that didn't study their asses off to know in PERFECT detail every single old and new style/technique/trend/etc they could possibly get their hands on. Mozart, Bach, etc all did too, they went to GREAT lengths to listen and know of other composers outside of their region/style/etc. Composing is the easy part, really. Anyone can do that.

Everything ELSE though, that's 100% hard work. There are no shortcuts to fighting ignorance.

From real conversations I have had with real professors:

Student: I want to learn how to write ABC.

Teacher: Sure, well you can learn how to write that, but have you heard xyz?

S: Yeah, I just really like ABC.

T: Do you know any xyz?

S: Of course, I took theory and heard a lot of xyz. I would rather write ABC.

T: Well, maybe you just haven't listened to enough xyz.

S: I really just want to learn more about ABC first.

T: I can't help you learn more about ABC.

S: ...? Why?

T: Let's just say they don't teach you how to write ABC in doctoral studies.

S: I'm an undergrad.

T: Good. You have plenty of time to learn it on your own then.

S: ...

T: ...

S: ...!

T: So, what would you like to write?

S: ...?! >:/

Had this conversation far too many times. It's disgraceful. Don't even bother with this "open mind" garbage. Your choice of aesthetic was at least offered to you in college.

AA

I never once experienced this. I had pretty much free reign over what I learned and was chastized for my lack of fundamentals time and time again. My main theory prof was equally versed in all western art music -- it was pretty intense. I was forced to learn pop and art as if it were one. I learned jazz right after computer music. My comp professor endured some horrible stuff, exploring whatever I had listened to that week, whether it be crappy funk or Gordon Mumma.

What the hell classes did you take? What exactly was XYZ and ABC? Like... for real. I have never seen a professor across all the classes in all the departments act in this way.

Unless you're talking about freshman and part of sophomore year, where it was simply a survey course, and the point is to not get too in depth and expose rather than hone.

I never once experienced this. I had pretty much free reign over what I learned...

I was forced to learn pop and art as if it were one. I learned jazz right after computer music. My comp professor endured some horrible stuff, exploring whatever I had listened to that week, whether it be crappy funk or Gordon Mumma.

What the hell classes did you take? What exactly was XYZ and ABC? Like... for real. I have never seen a professor across all the classes in all the departments act in this way.

Same here.

AntiA, we know you got the short end of the educational stick, but your experience is hardly the norm.

From real conversations I have had with real professors:

Student: I want to learn how to write ABC.

Teacher: Sure, well you can learn how to write that, but have you heard xyz?

S: Yeah, I just really like ABC.

T: Do you know any xyz?

S: Of course, I took theory and heard a lot of xyz. I would rather write ABC.

T: Well, maybe you just haven't listened to enough xyz.

S: I really just want to learn more about ABC first.

T: I can't help you learn more about ABC.

S: ...? Why?

T: Let's just say they don't teach you how to write ABC in doctoral studies.

S: I'm an undergrad.

T: Good. You have plenty of time to learn it on your own then.

S: ...

T: ...

S: ...!

T: So, what would you like to write?

S: ...?! >:/

Had this conversation far too many times. It's disgraceful. Don't even bother with this "open mind" garbage. Your choice of aesthetic was at least offered to you in college.

AA

Come on, man. I can see why you hate academia: you rely on anecdotes to bolster your weak point. This is a pedestrian error in argumentation.

I never once experienced this. I had pretty much free reign over what I learned and was chastized for my lack of fundamentals time and time again. My main theory prof was equally versed in all western art music -- it was pretty intense. I was forced to learn pop and art as if it were one. I learned jazz right after computer music. My comp professor endured some horrible stuff, exploring whatever I had listened to that week, whether it be crappy funk or Gordon Mumma.

What the hell classes did you take? What exactly was XYZ and ABC? Like... for real. I have never seen a professor across all the classes in all the departments act in this way.

Unless you're talking about freshman and part of sophomore year, where it was simply a survey course, and the point is to not get too in depth and expose rather than hone.

I suppose I thought it was more evident that the conversation was between a composition teacher and a composition student, specifically. Now, that's not to say that I didn't have an anomaly from time to time, an adjunct professor with some training in areas where I was interested.

That this was even an issue at the time speaks volumes for programs from universities like Cornell, NYC, and Michigan. John C. Adams notes similar experiences at Harvard during his time there as a student. There's nothing new about THIS conversation I've laid out for many other composers. If you haven't seen it, maybe "ABC" isn't something you're pursuing. Maybe xyz is, or maybe it isn't.

In the end, it doesn't matter what these are, as I'm only presenting this dialog in response to SSC's post.

Same here.

AntiA, we know you got the short end of the educational stick, but your experience is hardly the norm.

The "short end," eh? What exactly is this NORM, RJ?

Thing is, you could actually answer this question if you have decades of experience teaching at dozens(!) of universities across the U.S. There might actually be recently developing trends in university study I'm not privy to. I'm willing to take all of that into account if you're willing to acknowledge the possibility that ABC doesn't refer to anything you pursued.

Come on, man. I can see why you hate academia: you rely on anecdotes to bolster your weak point. This is a pedestrian error in argumentation.

I don't "hate" academia. I simply don't believe the institution is effective any longer at achieving what it was established to do from day one. That's a criticism, not "hatred."

I use a dialog to illustrate the reason how this:

"As an artist, you need to see art, even if it's bad. You need to be a polyglot, even if you'll never speak that language."

... is far removed from the reality that there are gaps that exist in the way music composition is taught. If anyone should be able to do anything they want in music composition, then the support should be there, and even at the basic level, a composition instructor should know more advanced practices in traditional areas (or at least know where to find these resources) that several just don't seem to know or care about.

Unfortunately, I could take this dialog into more depth by illustrating the biases against particular types of music and the mentalities that exist. This could be expanded to include the degree to which one in such a position finds themselves fighting to acquire the information and educational support to freely express themselves.

I suppose this "pedestrian error" of mine (whatever that means, link?) illustrates how there is "another side" to this idealism of "artistic liberation," which essentially points to the flaws that may only grow to become worse as time moves forward if they aren't addressed.

... is far removed from the reality that there are gaps that exist in the way music composition is taught. If anyone should be able to do anything they want in music composition, then the support should be there, and even at the basic level, a composition instructor should know more advanced practices in traditional areas (or at least know where to find these resources) that several just don't seem to know or care about.........................

I suppose this "pedestrian error" of mine (whatever that means, link?) illustrates how there is "another side" to this idealism of "artistic liberation," which essentially points to the flaws that may only grow to become worse as time moves forward if they aren't addressed.

There's nothing wrong, Shaun, with writing what you 'want' to write just as long as that choice is an informed choice. I've not had as long in school as you have BUT I can say from my experience that I've not experienced anything that you apparently have - makes me glad, actually, that I'm not considering any school in your fine state. Kind of makes me wonder why you were 'pushing' me a little bit to go back to school if it's constrictive!

Did you really just stereotype all the schools in the State of New York to be like the one he's describing?

Oh wait.... they are. :D

Well, at least most of em are.

Music that is from your own culture that you're familiar with isn't hard for you to understand?

Stop the swollenfooting presses.

yes for me Vivaldi is very familiar because is from culture of my country, but the modern music isn't in my personal culture and for me is very difficult understand this without an extra music explanation

yes for me Vivaldi is very familiar because is from culture of my country, but the modern music isn't in my personal culture and for me is very difficult understand this without an extra music explanation

Are you Italian? There's a LOT of modern Italian composers... some wonderful talent from Italy!! You should really get out some!

There's nothing wrong, Shaun, with writing what you 'want' to write just as long as that choice is an informed choice. I've not had as long in school as you have BUT I can say from my experience that I've not experienced anything that you apparently have - makes me glad, actually, that I'm not considering any school in your fine state. Kind of makes me wonder why you were 'pushing' me a little bit to go back to school if it's constrictive!

It's not a state-specific condition, in my opinion. None of the professors I had came from the state where I was taught.

At any rate, I think it's interesting that you think I "pushed" you a little bit to go back to school. It was constrictive to me because of my interests, an environment that simply threw up one roadblock after another. This was all in the early 2000's, too, so if things are changing for the better, that's great. Somehow, I doubt it though.

At the last uni I attended for my masters, a student received a full-ride scholarship to pursue his PhD in music composition at some really prestigious school (in Michigan?). His life ambition was to eliminate music theory from the higher education curriculum, and I was IN THE ROOM during a masterclass where Samuel Adler - yes, THE Samuel Adler - attempted to constructively critique this student's work while the student back-talked and insulted Adler for his comments. Yes, that's the guy who may very well be teaching music composition students, who know no better, what "new" music is...

Sorry, but my faith in the future teachers of music in higher education (present company on YC excluded for the most part - can't speak about everyone here since I don't know every YC member) is faltering. I'm sure the feeling may be mutual among some YC members towards the views I have - but since I'll be teaching at the K-12 level, you have all the time in the world to do something about it should you end up with one of my students.

All I can say is I have good reason to believe what I do, and I don't make my assertions lightly. I have genuine concern for those like Jason here who may end up spending a small fortune for information that should back his credentials - which I hope he gets.

In our century, we have behind us a lot of music for your reference:

Baroque music ... medioeval music ... classicism, romanticism .... impressionism .... neoclassicism ...

serialism ....

We can not learn and know all this.

We have to make choices.

First you must learn the basics of composition (bass harmonies, choral harmonizzation exercises ..).

We must look at a lot of music of our past and our present ...

But then it's up to us allows choosing which language to use ...

There are young composers who choose languages of the past, and others seeking to experiment with new...

In our century, we have behind us a lot of music for your reference:

Baroque music ... medioeval music ... classicism, romanticism .... impressionism .... neoclassicism ...

serialism ....

We can not learn and know all this.

We have to make choices.

Lies, you can. I have, and tons of other composers I know have also. It takes a while and it's hard work, yes, but it's possible.

Don't be lazy, please.

First you must learn the basics of composition (bass harmonies, choral harmonizzation exercises ..).

We must look at a lot of music of our past and our present ...

But then it's up to us allows choosing which language to use ...

There are young composers who choose languages of the past, and others seeking to experiment with new...

I wouldn't say any of that are "basics" to composition any more than serialism or gregorian chants are. That's a typical mistake really. There's no "basis" in art, there's only a learning process by which you assimilate different aesthetic choices.

I hardly think that young people choose a language any more than they are simply picking what is most familiar to them. That's fine at the start, since everyone has to start somewhere. It stops being an excuse as time goes by though and just becomes another form of laziness and spawns statements like yours above saying you can't possibly know art history and practices.

Comfort generates laziness.

Speaking of which.

T: Let's just say they don't teach you how to write ABC in doctoral studies.

S: I'm an undergrad.

T: Good. You have plenty of time to learn it on your own then.

I'm willing to bet ABC is something that passes off as theory (counterpoint, style copies, etc) so obviously it has nothing to do with what you're expected to compose.

College/universities SHOULD push people to write in styles they don't like, deal with things they're not comfortable with and in general shake people up. Because, really, that's how you learn anything. If the point of going to an university is just masturbating harder over what you already do and what is already comfortable, then why go?

And, really now, you can write still whatever you want in college/universities outside of classes/etc, nobody is forcing you to stop writing any kind of music. Just that obviously if a student comes up with some Bach copy it's not going to go to a concert for the composition class, it shouldn't either and it might as well be viewed as a theory exercise. The teachers can obviously talk about it and critique it, but for it to be an exercise in creativity to the same degree as it is working with actual freedom, it takes an extremely competent grasp of the music language.

So I'm starting to think AA's situation has more to do with him rather than bad teachers.

I'm willing to bet ABC is something that passes off as theory (counterpoint, style copies, etc) so obviously it has nothing to do with what you're expected to compose.

College/universities SHOULD push people to write in styles they don't like, deal with things they're not comfortable with and in general shake people up. Because, really, that's how you learn anything. If the point of going to an university is just masturbating harder over what you already do and what is already comfortable, then why go?

And, really now, you can write still whatever you want in college/universities outside of classes/etc, nobody is forcing you to stop writing any kind of music. Just that obviously if a student comes up with some Bach copy it's not going to go to a concert for the composition class, it shouldn't either and it might as well be viewed as a theory exercise. The teachers can obviously talk about it and critique it, but for it to be an exercise in creativity to the same degree as it is working with actual freedom, it takes an extremely competent grasp of the music language.

So I'm starting to think AA's situation has more to do with him rather than bad teachers.

1) ABC is nothing that passes off as theory.

2) Yes, colleges/uni's should push people beyond their limits. It doesn't mean colleges/uni's should do this exclusively with modernism.

3) No, you cannot write whatever you want in college and expect support. In some categories, sure. In all? Of course not.

4) Sure, it very much does have more to do with me... and the fact that I expected artistic freedom to extend to me I composed outside the modernist epoch.

Not only would none of my work "outside" of this epoch not count, few of the instructors I had were even willing to help me learn on my own or direct me to supportive materials they should have known to help me with, in my opinion. I can only say this in hindsight, as I've found those materials and continue to look for more.

-AA

2) Yes, colleges/uni's should push people beyond their limits. It doesn't mean colleges/uni's should do this exclusively with modernism.

Then?

I'm talking about mostly whatever isn't already extremely mainstream. Chances are, all that's mainstream is already the comfort zone of just about everyone normally. It'd be the total opposite if someone's comfort zone was writing aleatory music, and you forced them to write a sonata or something. I think it's just a cultural coincidence that modernism/whatever post 1800 is considered what would take people out of their comfort zone.

Any kind of composition advice would only do any good if it's when the person isn't sure what they're doing or are venturing into territory they're unfamiliar with. Otherwise, what's the point really if they have all the examples of what they could do already. If you want to write a sonata, you have billions of examples you can use. If you want to do something ELSE than that, nobody can give you examples specifically, you can only develop the idea. That's the entire point.

If all the ideas are already there for you, there's not much to do. That's the main problem with allowing style copies in composition lessons, since they don't really develop anyone's ability to deal with things from scratch, which I think is a very important skill to have. It applies to people who are just also mindlessly copying Schoenberg or whoever as well, it goes for really any style copy, even if it's a newer style. It doesn't matter in the end.