J. Lee Graham Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Opus is a Latin word meaning "work." Someone like Nico assigns an opus number to everything he writes, whether he finishes it or not, and apparently that's fine; though I have long thought that was misleading and somewhat self-gratifying, I have been disabused of that notion to a degree. Some composers only assign an opus number to works they have published. For example, Beethoven wrote a lot of music before he published his Opus 1 piano trios in the 1790s, and there were many pieces he wrote thoughout his career that he never bothered to publish, for whatever reason. He did not assign Opus numbers to these works, and they were catalogued separately after his death; this listing is known as the "Werke ohne Opuszahl" (Works without Opus number) catalogue, with each work included therein referenced by the acronym WoO followed by a catalogue number. Still other composers only assign an opus number to works they have completed, whether published or not. In a case such as you cite, Opus 32, No. 1 indicates that a set of similar pieces were published together under Opus 32, and the particular piece in question is Number One of the set.
Jeremiah Hong Posted June 23, 2006 Author Posted June 23, 2006 So how many set of pieces must be under one Opus if they are not published?
J. Lee Graham Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 [EDIT] You can have a single piece, like a symphonic or chamber work, that is itself an opus. Or you can put a set of six choral works of a similar or complimentary character together and give the group a collective opus number. Some composers have published 6 or 12 major works together in a single opus, such as Haydn's Opus 76 string quartets. It's up to the composer, pretty much.
Tumababa Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 And remember the most important part! You get one groupie for every opus you declare! :) Soon I will draw your attention to my latest set of works: 3400 separate aleatoric pieces for piano each lasting less than five seconds. Each will have their own opus number. Actually as I'm typing this I'm thinking that Bach had opuses numbering over a thousand and he had sex like it was going out of style(well.... he had lots of kids anyway) whereas Beethoven was probably suffering from blueballs half of his life and I think he only broke the hundred mark by about 25 or so.... Discuss......
J. Lee Graham Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 I should clarify something: separate movements in a larger work don't get counted as Op. 32 No 1, Op 32 No 2, etc. It doesn't work that way. A symphony, sonata, quartet, etc just gets an opus number, no subdivisions. If a composer publishes 6 quartets in a single opus, each 4-movement quartet gets a number within the opus, i.e Op. 76, No. 3. Bach actually didn't have alot of opuses. He didn't number his works that way. I don't think he bothered numbering them at all. Someone else did much later. He didn't publish much during his lifetime, either. But you're probably right about the rest of it.
Tumababa Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 Yeah I guess that's a good point. Opus numbers assigned after death couldn't possibly affect groupie numbers.
zephyrclaw Posted July 23, 2006 Posted July 23, 2006 A simple, summarised definition of an opus is "a work or a group of works".
Nightscape Posted July 23, 2006 Posted July 23, 2006 Exactly - and like J. Lee stated, opus means different things to different people. I don't use opus #s because I think it is outdated and besides, it is a Latin word, and I try to steer clear of words that are not in my native language when describing my own music(I do make exceptions, though, like mp, f, rit., etc. Just because they are so universal that they have basically entered the English language anyway.) Also, I think it is somewhat over self-congratulatory to assign an opus to every tiny thing you write.... I like Beethoven's idea of assigning an opus to a published work, in the order published. I do believe in catalogues however. I keep a catalogue of everything I write in chronological order. This way, I can look back on previous pieces and see the exact order they were written and try and analyse how my musical style and experience is progressing.
CaltechViolist Posted July 23, 2006 Posted July 23, 2006 Latin, not Italian. Get your languages straight. ;)
Nightscape Posted July 23, 2006 Posted July 23, 2006 Oops, I knew that I'm not sure why I said that. I guess I was just thinking 'musical language term'.
zentari Posted August 1, 2006 Posted August 1, 2006 Yeah, I think that Bach published 4 seperate op. numbers, known as the Clavier-Ubung. the first was a collection of Partitas, the second was the italian concerto and overture in the french style, third was the orgel-buchlein, and fourth were the goldberg variations. He also published Musical Offering, and was going to have Art of Fugue printed, but died before it was completed... ok, enough for my ranting about what Bach published... It may be the catalogue you were referring to, where Bach has 1121 works in the BWV catalogue. It's a catalogue that I recommend keeping more than labeling things as "opus" numbers (I think opus is actually from the italian word "opera," which means work... opera in musica- work in music). Mozart kept a catalogue of everything he wrote, just jotting the main themes into it (why am I singing the praises of Mozart???? I must have lost it somewhere down the road). Well, that's about it.
J. Lee Graham Posted August 1, 2006 Posted August 1, 2006 I have a facsimile copy of Mozart's Catalogue...it's one of my most prized possessions. Also, I think it is somewhat over self-congratulatory to assign an opus to every tiny thing you write I agree heartily, having discontinued this practice myself in my mid-teens for exactly the reason you cite. I didn't even start numbering my symphonies until I had three of them completed. If I numbered all of my aborted attempts, I'd have about 15 of 'em in my catalogue...but aside from stroking my ego, being misleading and making myself out to be better than I really am, what practical purpose would that serve? This is one of my pet peeves, in case you hadn't guessed. The thought of going through all my scores, fragments and sketches for the purpose of cataloging them is truly daunting, so I haven't done it yet. I do believe in it, though, and I have a book I intend to use for the purpose when I finally get the requisite nerve and block of time, set up very similarly to Mozart's.
Daniel Posted August 1, 2006 Posted August 1, 2006 Just by the way zentari, it's Latin, like Caltech said, and Opus is the singular, meaning work, Opera is the plural, meaning works. I've decided only to give Opus numbers for personal reference. I do have a "catalogue" although I haven't got to the stage of including the opening measures for reference. It's just a text file. I don't anymore (not that I really ever did) put the opus numbers on pieces which I let others see, but it is useful for personal reference, and it's not a pretentious thing in this case. If you consider it strange to be using Latin instead of English, well Mozart was Austrian, and Beethoven German, etc. etc. Also - Mozart's dedication to the Haydn Quartets (Opera X incidentally) was in Italian, which was neither his nor Haydn's nor the Viennese first language. I don't feel that any English speaking composer today needs to be restricted to English, especially when so many Italian and German and French terms are so commonly used in the repetory, and understood by musicians.
CaltechViolist Posted August 1, 2006 Posted August 1, 2006 Italian was simply the traditional language of music at the time; you don't start seeing German, French, and English terms being used until the 19th century. Bach even signed many of his works "G.S. Bach" - G for Giovanni.
Nightscape Posted August 1, 2006 Posted August 1, 2006 Daniel, I agree with you - but at a certain point in musical history, nationalism and common sense starting taking over and composers starting realizing it was silly and rather shallow to be using a language you may know nothing about about. I don't know any Italian, or Latin, and only a little German or French. Frankly, I would feel like I was insulting Italian culture by attempting to use a language that I don't speak - it would be nothing more than shallow imitation of tradition. I greatly admire Debussy and Ravel, who both used French in thier music, but I wouldn't use French in my own music unless I felt confident enough in the language and the culture to do so. The only language I feel like I am qualified to do this with is English.
cmajchord Posted August 1, 2006 Posted August 1, 2006 A big pet peeve of mine is when people tilte their pieces in different languages, just to sound artistic. Like an american writing a work for piano and trying to make it sound more exciting by calling it "Klavier Stucke #1" or when they write a little excercise or whatever and give it a "deep" name, like "Unrequited Tears" When I went to college to study music I saw the combination of both. I can't number how many pieces (crappy ones too) were titled something like "Le Petit Chat". Keep in mind the school is here in the U.S. and these pieces were usually Bach-style chorale studies.... Hahaha...
Daniel Posted August 1, 2006 Posted August 1, 2006 Good points Caltech&Nightscape. I understand about the feeling comfortable with the language. Although you say it would be a shallow imitation of tradition.. I don't know.. I think it just is tradition. I think alot of musical traditions haven't died out and are still alive. One of the things that bugs me about writing in English is that I find it ugly and clumsy.
giselle Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 A big pet peeve of mine is when people tilte their pieces in different languages, just to sound artistic. Like an american writing a work for piano and trying to make it sound more exciting by calling it "Klavier Stucke #1" or when they write a little excercise or whatever and give it a "deep" name, like "Unrequited Tears" hahaha I love to make fun of people for doing that, both of those things. I really despise titles in general though, It's like pulling teeth to get them out of me. In fact, I allowed my teacher to name my last piece, hee!! How silly is that. It was a good generic english name though. I liked it.
Nightscape Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 lol, "Unrequited Tears" that's pretty funny. Reminds me of a time when I decided to "name" all of the Chopin Preludes.... I think I still have that somewhere, mabye I should post it.
Nightscape Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 lol, just for fun, here are my "alternate" titles for the Chopin Preludes: 1. Sensations of Hunger after an Afternoon of Boating 2. Wandering the deserts of Africa with no food or water 3. Merry tune on the arrival of a famed magician 4. Contemplation on the murder of a loved one 5. Strolling through the English countryside, Whilst sipping Brandy 6. Restless young church boys, playing pranks on the Elderly Mrs. Kratchet 7. A Magical Sensation of Pleasure that Runs through my Heart like a sea of Flames 8. Buried alive, searching without end for a book of Matches 9. Scolding the local Watchman for falling asleep and accidently sitting on the Family Dog 10. The Arrival of Merlus, the Great Merrymaker who gidens from above with happy glee 11. Temptations of a Scarlet Vixen on the Street Corner during a Foggy Night 12. Hark! For a Great Wind doth stirruth! 13. A Merry Trinket, without so much as a thought smashed to Bits 14. Primal Urges to Commit the Shameful sin of Adultry 15. As If The Moon Doth Whisper in Mine Very Ears 16. A Great Black Plague Doth Descendeth Upon The Merry Corn Fields 17. Giddy Feelings Upon Thinking About The Schoolmaster's Daughter 18. A Vile Witch, With Great Warts the Size of the German State 19. Look East! For a Happy Wind of Blessing is Coming! 20. A Shameful Display of Weeping, Upon The Tomb of A Beloved Uncle 21. Meditation, Upon the Great And Magical Teachings of the Mystic Gregory 22. The Profound Sufferings of a Peach 23. Joyful Lovemaking Under a Moon of Flames! 24. A Great Apocalypse, that Will Soon Wither the World
giselle Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 lol, just for fun, here are my "alternate" titles for the Chopin Preludes: 1. Sensations of Hunger after an Afternoon of Boating 2. Wandering the deserts of Africa with no food or water 3. Merry tune on the arrival of a famed magician 4. Contemplation on the murder of a loved one 5. Strolling through the English countryside, Whilst sipping Brandy 6. Restless young church boys, playing pranks on the Elderly Mrs. Kratchet 7. A Magical Sensation of Pleasure that Runs through my Heart like a sea of Flames 8. Buried alive, searching without end for a book of Matches 9. Scolding the local Watchman for falling asleep and accidently sitting on the Family Dog 10. The Arrival of Merlus, the Great Merrymaker who gidens from above with happy glee 11. Temptations of a Scarlet Vixen on the Street Corner during a Foggy Night 12. Hark! For a Great Wind doth stirruth! 13. A Merry Trinket, without so much as a thought smashed to Bits 14. Primal Urges to Commit the Shameful sin of Adultry 15. As If The Moon Doth Whisper in Mine Very Ears 16. A Great Black Plague Doth Descendeth Upon The Merry Corn Fields 17. Giddy Feelings Upon Thinking About The Schoolmaster's Daughter 18. A Vile Witch, With Great Warts the Size of the German State 19. Look East! For a Happy Wind of Blessing is Coming! 20. A Shameful Display of Weeping, Upon The Tomb of A Beloved Uncle 21. Meditation, Upon the Great And Magical Teachings of the Mystic Gregory 22. The Profound Sufferings of a Peach 23. Joyful Lovemaking Under a Moon of Flames! 24. A Great Apocalypse, that Will Soon Wither the World I found that to be quite hilarious, actually.
CaltechViolist Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 Had Chopin been alive and studying at an American conservatory today, he'd almost undoubtedly have added titles like that, because it's so expected these days.
J. Lee Graham Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 That's if his professors let him get away with writing music like that.
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