Discussion on "contemporary" music.

A very interesting video, followed by the performance of Schoenbergs' Fantasie op. 47 for violin and piano...

and the performance

It shows that Gould was very much into understanding such music (remember that this video takes place 50+ years ago if not more), and that Menuhin was not too fond of that, but showed great respect and a will to learn even at that age.

Menuhin's observation that Schoenberg's music relies on prior knowledge of, and is a caricature of something is very interesting. I listened to the Fantasie with this in mind, trying to work out what it was that the music was trying to reference. It seems to be a distortion of everything - hints of tonality are never allowed to become unambiguous, the surface texture itself seems to exaggerate all kinds of other composers' styles and the music's contruction is a patchwork of different gestures and colours, creating a sound world that touched upon but never quite embraced any particular point of reference. Schoenberg was of course intimately knowledgeable of music from Bach forward, and uses very well-established compositional techniques behind the dodecaphonic language, heightening the effect of this 'referencing' of historical musics. Menuhin is also spot on in comparing Schoenberg to Bach; the piece is certainly abstract in the same way as Bach, and perhaps for the same reason: that both composers are trying to evoke something 'beyond' what one immediately hears.

Siwi. I don't know much about Schoenberg , but when I listen to the Berg violin concerto I hear a Walzer too, and I think it is no caricature there. Even when Berg includes a Bach chorale, I think it is no caricature. When I hear that violin concerto it sounds so romantic in all its gestures; the inclusion of recognisable elements is just to add some extra meaning or point of reference, next to the emotion his music already conveys.

But then, this is Berg, not Schoenberg...

I liked to see how Menuhin interprets the disappearance of the distinction between dissonant and consonant, and replaces it by "sound or no sound".

While Gould is more nuanced and add the notion of dynamic as a precursor of even more extended technique. I think you can see in Menuhins remark that he does not really like this music, I think.

my 2ct