Should the score be in concert pitch?

Hey all,

I was just wondering whether I should put the scores of orchestral pieces I write in concert pitch when it's being played? Does it matter either way?

Thanks,

abs260

Hey all,

I was just wondering whether I should put the scores of orchestral pieces I write in concert pitch when it's being played? Does it matter either way?

Thanks,

abs260

No. Yes.

You're welcome.

Yeah, things are not going to go so smoothly if your performers have to transpose on the fly. Anything you do that will take up unnecessary rehearsal time should be avoided, so give the players transposed parts! The score can be in concert pitch for study purposes, but do not give it to a conductor like that. Conductors typically read transposed scores.

Yes for writing.

No for the final piece and instrument parts.

I think it's too simplified to just say "scores have to be transposed". That depends on several circumstances.

But let's go through things to consider in order of importance:

1. Whatever you do, concert pitch or transposed, the first and most important thing is to clearly write it on top of the first score page. A conductor should be easily able to deal with both concert pitch or transposed scores. What a conductor can not be supposed to silently accept however is having to spend half a hour trying to figure out whether the score is in concert pitch or transposed. In doubt, more information is preferable to less information, when it comes to such central things.

2. Ask the conductor. If you have a conductor who is willing to perform the piece, ask what she or he prefers. There are many different preferences, depending on the style of music, the country you're living in, etc.

3. If you don't have a planned performance for your piece and thus can't ask the conductor, decide for yourself, but optimally (if you're writing the piece on a computer) lay it out in such a way that you can still change it around if needed.

Personally, I write all my scores in concert pitch, with the exception of arrangements, which are often kept transposed. I do this after discussing the matter with several conductors, many of which affirmed that they preferred transposed scores for tonal music, whereas concert pitch was preferred for music without a clear tonal centre.

This has, of course, some reasons: In traditional, tonal music it is generally very easy to transpose voices mentally to get an idea of how the whole piece sounds. If a horn has a written "C" in a Haydn symphony, that will in most cases mean: "tonic!" There is thus a very direct correlation between harmonic function and the notes you see written in the transposed score. Furthermore, it allows you to see the instrumental ranges more clearly, and spot which notes are going to cause more problems due to high/low pitch etc.

In a piece that has nothing to do with common practice tonality, the situation changes somewhat, and even more so the more it moves away from equal temperament and traditional instrumental techniques and notation. In a highly complex Ferneyhough score, no conductor will actually follow an individual voice precisely when conducting, since there's simply too much information to take in. Instead, he will focus on larger things. Keeping everyone together. Watching the dynamic balance and overall timbre, etc. Additionally, you might have many instruments playing in unusual ranges. And microtonal harmonies. And so on. Transposing -that- stuff on the fly for several instruments at once is something no conductor is likely to enjoy. Here, the conductor will generally want to see as quickly as possible the overall density in the various registers, for which a concert pitch score is usually the best choice.

But as I said, in the end it comes down to individual preference on the conductor's part, as well as to local customs.

(P.S. Take note however. Even if you write a concert pitch score, instruments that play in a different octave than they sound are still transposed. A contrabass will still be written an octave "too high", and a piccolo an octave "too low", etc. It is generally advised to write this, too, at the top of your score if you write in concert pitch.)

P.S. Hi guys!

Holy crap its Gardener!!!

EDIT: To the topic, its up to preference. I think Transposed is far more useful in rehearsal and even study. I, personally, would never conduct from a Concert Score; it is the conductor's job to know the transpositions accordingly.

I only work in concert pitch. I don't care what note they think they're playing... I only need to worry about what note is actally coming out.

I don't understand why a composer would ever work in a transposed score...

I actually compose transcribed scores, which in my world gets pretty complicated. While my scores may not always be absolutely neat as a pin - I'm not quite as obsessive as some here about that - the way something looks on the page has an effect on me, and somehow, seeing parts for transposing instruments written at concert pitch just looks wrong.

On the few occasions when I have conducted an ensemble I felt the same way: give it to me transposed, which is usually the way the composer wrote it anyway.

Well I was speaking to my conductor last night about this and he doesn't mind either way so I just left it in concert pitch because that's how I composed it. He's a very experienced conductor and can easily transpose everything anyway. Although if it was a conductor who wasn't as experienced I think I probably wouldn't put it in concert pitch just to make rehearsals easier, I guess it's just personal preference. I always put the parts in the key for the instrument it's just the score I wasn't too sure about.

Thanks guys :)

abs260

There's a very good reason for having the score transposed, and that's so that the conductor and players of transposing instruments can instantly know which note they are talking about. If the conductor has to correct a C natural in a clarinet part which is written in concert pitch, they will have to remember to transpose the note, which could be a Bb, an A or an Eb, or even a D or C in some cases. If they don't, confusion arises. As has been pointed out, you are saving the rehearsal time of musicians paid by the hour.

Also, pianists who can score-read will automatically assume the part is transposed.

There's a very good reason for having the score transposed, and that's so that the conductor and players of transposing instruments can instantly know which note they are talking about. If the conductor has to correct a C natural in a clarinet part which is written in concert pitch, they will have to remember to transpose the note, which could be a Bb, an A or an Eb, or even a D or C in some cases. If they don't, confusion arises. As has been pointed out, you are saving the rehearsal time of musicians paid by the hour.

Also, pianists who can score-read will automatically assume the part is transposed.

Yes, I understand that. I know for rehearsal purposes a transposed score would be best for a conductor.

...what I said was I don't understand why a composer would work in a transposed score....

;)

There's a very good reason for having the score transposed, and that's so that the conductor and players of transposing instruments can instantly know which note they are talking about. If the conductor has to correct a C natural in a clarinet part which is written in concert pitch, they will have to remember to transpose the note, which could be a Bb, an A or an Eb, or even a D or C in some cases. If they don't, confusion arises. As has been pointed out, you are saving the rehearsal time of musicians paid by the hour.

Also, pianists who can score-read will automatically assume the part is transposed.

If it was only the case that "no confusion arises" if a conductor uses strictly transposed note names. But alas, that often isn't the case. When I'm reading a horn part in an orchestra and communicate a note with other musicians, I instinctively always transpose my score to C. I always communicate sounding notes, not written. Many conductors do the same -even- if they are reading from a transposed score, and personally I think that's the clearest way of communication: "Your sounding D" is crystal clear. "Your written E" -may- be clear, but there are always cases when, say, the conductor is reading from a different edition than the player where a specific place might be notated differently. That's why I find, in order to avoid confusion, it's best to always talk about the sounding notes, not a specific notation.

This becomes especially pronounced when a conductor is talking to a whole group of instruments. He won't say "please, woodwind section, play this chord for me that is an E-major chord for you Bb clarinets and a D-major for you bassoons and an A-major for you Englishhorn". He'll say "play this D-major chord", and the players are supposed to transpose this, because honestly, that's the quickest, most efficient way to communicate this information. It is, in such cases also -important- that the musicians don't just read their note and play it, but understand its function in the current harmony. A Bb-clarinetist who plays a sounding F# in said chord will have to realize that he's playing the third of a D-major chord and not just "a written G#".

There's a very good reason for having the score transposed, and that's so that the conductor and players of transposing instruments can instantly know which note they are talking about. If the conductor has to correct a C natural in a clarinet part which is written in concert pitch, they will have to remember to transpose the note, which could be a Bb, an A or an Eb, or even a D or C in some cases. If they don't, confusion arises. As has been pointed out, you are saving the rehearsal time of musicians paid by the hour.

This.

Final product = transposed score.

If you're composing, use concert pitch. Save yourself the hastle of having to hear transposed pitches.

Haha, funny. I didn't read all the responses, but I guess I did it the wrong way for my last piece (a woodwind quintet) - I gave myself (the conductor) a concert score, and my performers transposed parts, and then just transposed in my head when I needed to reference certain notes. But, there are a lot of reasons for that.

When I took my score into lessons every week, generally my teacher would be playing piano, so it's just easier for him to play five voices when they're all the same transposition, and the point of my lesson isn't to test my comp teacher's transposing skills (which were fine - I accidentally brought in a transposed score once and he played it just as well xD) but to deal with problems in my composition, so that's the bigger issue. He did make it a point to remind me to note whether it was a concert or transposed score, though.

Then also, for myself personally, I was rehearsing my piece with people missing every so often, and it's a lot easier for me to sing the missing parts (voice is my primary instrument, so that's all I could really do) when it was in concert pitch, so that's just a random consideration. It depends on what kind of singer you are, I guess - some singers have no problem transposing while singing, but I'm not really one of them, because I tune based on the sonorities and it's hard for me to sing a pitch that doesn't appear to be in the chord from first glance.... and my transposing is terrible as it is, being a singer and never having to deal with that before like, this year.

I definitely don't have problems reading transposing scores when called for, but I am not a conductor, and as a composer I find it a lot easier to work with a concert score unless I am just trying to give myself practice. It's good to look at the transposing version for range checks and the like, but typically it doesn't seem necessary to me until nearing the end of the compositional practice, especially if you just keep in mind the range limitations in terms of sounding pitch. But that's just me... not really based on any facts, just personal experience, limited as it may be.

Speaking as a conductor:

it makes sense to everyone who doesn't have to deal with transposing instruments on a daily basis (composers, vocalists, violinists, etc) to have CONCERT pitch EVERYthing.

It's simply not practical when dealing with instruments that transpose. It's also more conventional to have a transposed score than non.

The conductors I've worked with don't care. Just want it to be stated if it's C (it's hard to tell when it's atonal, but if it's tonal it's easy enough).

I always hand in a transposed score, I'm a neat freak with that, and I wouldn't want my horn parts to be hanging like my balls.....

Transposed scores are STANDARD! POINT BLANK. This wasn't even a issue five years ago.

"C" scores were usually reduced scores in the olden days :)

If anyone studies conducting, you'll have to learn how to play the score on the piano. Pretty standard practice.

Last tidbit: When you go to japan, one learns japanese. When you talk to a transposed instrument in a professional setting, you talk to them in their language.