Is music pointless without emotion?

I decided to create a poll here to spice things up a little.

If I had answered that question only a few months ago, I would have said yes. I believed that if music did not make you feel differently after you had heard it compared to before you had heard it, it served no purpose and there was no point in listening to it. However, recently I have come to appreciate the beauty of classical music, the perfection and logic that makes it attractive to the ears.

Any thoughts?

The beauty of music in my mind is that it covers and stimulates so many different parts of the human psyche. Music touches the intellect, the emotions, the spiritual side, the practical side, and the list just keeps on going. To say that all music that does not touch the emotions is pointless, not only because it wipes out a huge class of not only valid but beautiful music, but it robs you, the listener, of everything else that music can offer you other than a tear in your eye.

I think this mindset is what originally opened me up to music of the 20th century and later.

Without emotion, how would interpret the line and furthermore... Why would someone play or listen to music if they felt nothing from it. These feelings are why music exists. period.

On another note, does anyone here cry a lot listening to emotional pieces? I know I do.

On another note, does anyone here cry a lot listening to emotional pieces? I know I do.

Honestly...I don't. My heart gets pumping, but physically that's about it. The joy of the experience of music happens in my mind. Certain pieces and certain performances evoke fond memories or desperate hopes within me. Music is an incredibly emotional experience in this way. Of course, there's our argument - my experiences are personal to me, and the question becomes, are the emotions behind those remembered experiences universal, ie ingrained into the fabric of the music, or am I just interpreting it that way?

I'm not sure I have an answer. I want to say that music is an entirely personal experience, for that would go along with my life philosophy in general, but there are certain themes that seem to make everyone melancholy.

I don't get affected emotionally by music a lot, but when I do I know it. Haha...I cry during most movies, if it's not retarded and it has a semi-sad scene... I cry like a freak during movies like Terms of Endearment, K-Pax, etc.

But back to music. I personally feel better about a piece of music if I find it intellectually stimulating, like with fun rhythms or wierd harmonies or complex anythings. Pretty much whenever composers combine things, or think out of the box, do I like their music. Minimalism(Adams, Reilly, GLASS), Danny Elfman, Prokofiev, Khachaturian, Britten, BARTOK, Shoenberg, etc. They stimulate me a lot more than any emotional piece(such as Claire de Lune, Pagliacci- Vesti la Giubba, etc.). But I think it's both. Music is for the individual, and cannot be broadly described in any way whatsoever. Just talk to John Cage...!

I decided to create a poll here to spice things up a little.

If I had answered that question only a few months ago, I would have said yes. I believed that if music did not make you feel differently after you had heard it compared to before you had heard it, it served no purpose and there was no point in listening to it. However, recently I have come to appreciate the beauty of classical music, the perfection and logic that makes it attractive to the ears.

Any thoughts?

Umm, classical music certainly has emotion to it...

There is certainly some, but I feel the range of emotions which can be expressed is narrower than in Romantic and Modern music. Just my personal opinion, probably.

There is certainly some, but I feel the range of emotions which can be expressed is narrower than in Romantic and Modern music. Just my personal opinion, probably.

Not that much narrower. Listen to Haydn's 44th ("Trauer") symphony, and then tell me with a straight face Classical music can't be emotional.

There is certainly some, but I feel the range of emotions which can be expressed is narrower than in Romantic and Modern music. Just my personal opinion, probably.

The idiomatic vocabulary may be narrower, but it's considerably wider than that of the blues, which is an exceptionally emotional form. I would, however, agree that everything from the baroque to the ninteenth century is often played in an emotionless style nowadays because much of the market for orchestral, chamber, and piano music is for background noise.

I just realized that the distinction that Mike was making was between "High Classical" music and music from all the other classical eras, not just classical music in general compared to more popular forms of music.

In that case, yes. But I would draw a distinction. This is an extremely complicated topic and musicologists have debated to no end about it: does music have emotions inherent in it or do we inject the emotions into it? Being the fence-straddler that I am, I'm inclined to say it's some happy combination of the two.

I'm reading a book right now called "Music and the Mind" by British psychologist Anthony Storr. In it, he states that music causes one of a few general states of arousal that can bring out the emotions that we are feeling in our lives at the time.

For example, the second movement of Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata might fill me with either endless joy or insurmountable sorrow. Am I currently in love? Did I recently break up with someone? Am I lonely these days? The answers to all these questions bring certain emotions closer to my heart, ready to be called up more easily. The agent that calls these emotions up is, of course, music.

What say you? Or shall I explain it a bit more?

I understand what you're saying. In my opinion, music and, in particular, sounds, usually generate some kind of emotional response from a human being. Like a raspy, dissonant chord in a horror film, or a diminished fifth, or on the other hand a major 7th chord, or just a major chord. We 'know' what to feel. Furthermore, some keys such as D minor do in fact naturally make us sad, something to do with the frequency I think.

However, as far as deeper experience and understanding of what a piece of music means, I think we inject this in. I love certain pieces of music because I have something good associated with them. When other people hear them, they're indifferent.

I hope I understood correctly...

However, as far as deeper experience and understanding of what a piece of music means, I think we inject this in. I love certain pieces of music because I have something good associated with them. When other people hear them, they're indifferent.

I think that's what makes the genre of movie and game music so wonderful - the feelings associated with the music are readily recalled, and the music is that much better as a result.

I think that's what makes the genre of movie and game music so wonderful - the feelings associated with the music are readily recalled, and the music is that much better as a result.

I just came back from a month of crazy ideas, including those of Herbert Brun, from which I gather: Yes, it takes a meeting of music and listener for a response to happen. But we become better listeners by not shutting down when met by unfamiliarity, but engaging even more.

I think this question could get a little dangerous just because emotion and its corresponding states are so subjective. You know - there's a whole spectrum of how emotions are experienced. (I just finished a book about autism, so that might have something to do with it...hehe.)

Okay...let's put that aside for a sec. I'm drawn to classical music because a good deal of it makes me happy. And I like feeling happy. I've also played a small range of classical music in a number of ensembles, and I like the memories associated with everything that includes. Other music I like (on a secondary level) includes some jazz, some techno, quite a bit of classic rock, and the odd pop song. These obviously must have a few common characteristics I find emotionally attractive.

Of course, I realise music has quite a bit of intellectual appeal also. I'm not sure whether I'm right about this, but I suspect I'd enjoy modern music substantially more if I knew something about harmony and the like. (Which I will, before too long, I'll make sure.) Provided I've got the right idea, then, I realise I'm excluded a little from experiencing such music, but I don't think that necessarily takes away from its value. It's just...yeah, a different kind of value.

As for video game music: It's meant to sound exciting. I've played only the occasional video game, but I've heard music from quite a few - and although I don't want to generalise, I've noticed that it tends to makes you recall excitement, and victories, and the like, anyhow. It has to. This is psychological. It wants you to win that battle, doesn't it? * grins *

I just noticed how bad the question on this poll is. Ah well, it started off the Composition forum I suppose.

I think music should be appreciated when it makes you happy/sad/mad/angry/depressed/teary and when it doesn't. Music can be beautiful even when it doesn't make you feel something.

I think that when someone refers to emotions in a song, they are talking about tempo and dynamics. They both plays a huge part in the emotions of a song. In my compositions, dynamics are a huge factor, but i certainly don't use it to express my feelings or whatnot. I use it to make the piece more interesting and exciting. Same goes with the tempo.

Am i agreed?

As a composer, I write music to make someone think and feel different. Basically, I write to strike an emotional chord within someone.

As a listener, if music can't make me think or feel something new it seems to me that I wasted a lot of my time. If I can't think or feel during the listening process why am I bothering to listen to whatever piece I am listening too? It's seems pointless not to have any emotion in a composition.

I think music should be appreciated when it makes you happy/sad/mad/angry/depressed/teary and when it doesn't. Music can be beautiful even when it doesn't make you feel something.

I think that when someone refers to emotions in a song, they are talking about tempo and dynamics. They both plays a huge part in the emotions of a song. In my compositions, dynamics are a huge factor, but i certainly don't use it to express my feelings or whatnot. I use it to make the piece more interesting and exciting. Same goes with the tempo.

Am i agreed?

and I agree

I actually feel as though I can't answer this poll. The question states "Is music pointless without emotion?" but, given the nature of humanity I don't believe music can exist without emotion. No matter what the music is or where you hear it there will be an emotional reaction even if it's on a sub-conscious level. For example even the muzak you hear in a shopping mall or a restaurant will affect your mood. In some cases lifting your spirits or in other cases annoying you - each causing an emotional reaction.

Why is it that, in books and films which use an anti-utopian society where emotion is to be suppressed, there is a rule against reading literature or listening to music? Because they evoke emotion. That is what music does.

The question of 'what is music' can then be thrown into the pool. Does the sound of a bus driving by count as music? Well, it will all still affect us.

I don't feel as though music and emotion are exclusive of each other. Music will never exist without emotion.

I don't have emotions often. Especially when listening to music. You can squash this report and tell me that I am experiencing emotions on a subconscious level, but you don't know any better than I do.

However, I can admit that today when hearing (for the third time) a concert of band music designed for the enjoyment of mostly old folks, I nearly felt anger. How dare all this effort and money go into this tonal bathwater?! (I'm not talking about the finer works of tonality here...) Here I am trying to spend my life finding harmonies, musics that no one has heard the likes of before, and THIS is what people will shell out money for?! They can enjoy this music and I can't!

I believe that music is when there's an intention of music. I also believe that music can by its very ambiguity do what language cannot, whatever that is. When you think about 1984's Newspeak that was designed so that things like inalienable rights would be unthinkable, well, yeah, music could present a problem.

If emotion is the body's reaction to an over-exposure to stimuli, to a situation that it cannot handle...then I see where you're coming from. But that's not only in the music, that's also in the listener.

Is emotion pointless without music?

I can't get my head around that sentence in this heat :) Maybe tomorrow...

I can't get my head around that sentence in this heat :) Maybe tomorrow...

Heat? I'm looking at the London weather forecasts for the week. The highs look perfectly comfortable; if anything, I'd feel cold for about half of the day.

Of course, I also prefer a room temperature between 80 and 85 degrees, and find 80 to 90 degrees ideal for sports, so you can probably ignore what I say about weather...

Heat?

Originally posted by J. Lee Graham@Jul 12 2005, 07:37 AM

Actually, in Britain (probably because of the humidity) 30 degrees Celsius (85 degrees Fahrenheit) feels a lot like 35 degrees Celsius (95 Fahrenheit) or higher.