Crossed Voices and overlapping voices

What are some Bad crossed voices? connecting chords

When do crossed voices happen mostly?

When do Overlapping Voices happen mostly?

Whats the best way to avoide crossed and overlapping voices?

There questions make no sense to me.

Its for 4 part writing crossed and overlapping voicing is bad in classical music

Yeah, but you are giving no examples. The problem is when you say 'when' will they happen. Obviously it will happen when the voices get so close together that they play the same note or cross. To fix it would mean to change one or both voices. How is impossible to tell because we are not taking about an individual situation.

It happens when you have two problematic melodies you try to arrange in counterpoint. If one ascends an octave and the other descends an octave you have to start an 19th apart and have them close in to a third, or something.

when you have melodies like this you either give up or have them cross anyway. I know some fugues that have octave jumps in the subject. This one fugue has a jump of a fifth in the subject and two octave jumps in the countersubject. In this case crossing voices will be very hard.

If you want to write neat counterpoint you don't want to cross or have more than an octave inbetween the voices. This means they need to stay close together. But a melody should cover enough space otherwise it will start to sound dull and repetitive.

There will be situations with the problem of viotating several rules. Then it becomes difficult not to break this, or any rule.

Crossed voices: the tenor should not be placed above the alto

the alto should not be placed above the soprano

How do i avoid doing this when part writing ?

By not writing the voices that way.

you can avoid crossings by retreating to the previous chords and changing the order of the chord notes in voices, and in general try to stay in the optimum of every voice when doing the harmonisation.

I beg to differ that crossed voices and overlapping voices are bad, though, unless you are trying to write something neoclassical. The only disadvantage of them is that if the overlapping voices has very similar sound (sonoristically(?) speaking) then you could not distinguish which one is going up and which is going down, they will mix. But, seriously, who cares anyway :P

Yeonil

Things like these weaken the polyphonic character of the piece. When voices cross or overlap they lose individuality. The voices become more ambigious.

You have to know why rules exists to know when to follow them (or break them).

overlapping voices or note would be HELD over into another chord

This Overlapping notes is suspensions because they are HELD notes being

overlapped

I see alot of Tie notes on scores are Tie notes = suspensions

I though you meant two voices playing the same notes with overlapping.

Tied notes can be suspentions. In counterpoint-music they often are.

So are all Tie notes always suspensions? or can Tie notes be something else?

Are Tie Notes embellishments? Tie notes seems like suspensions to me always

what else can a Tie note be?

Tie notes are mostly "Common tones" from chord to chords my book says

A false relation (also called cross relation or cross-relation)

Will Borrowed chords have cross relations? because its changing from minor to major?

What chords in succession will give cross relations mostly chromatic altered chords?

Mostly Crossed Voice have "False relations "or "cross relations" a chromatic sharp or flat

A cross relation is a chromatic succession that has been split between two voices

In a suspention you tie over a chord note from the first chord into the next measure where is will suspend above the new chord. Often the tied note will be the 4th in the new chord. The suspension is resolved to the third.

Tied notes don't have to be suspensions. It requires two chords. If they aren't there there can't be a suspention.

Tied notes can also be called syncopation, if it occurs in the main melody for example, because there will not be a accent on the first beat of the next measure.

check this site: http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/

And here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_%28music%29

Thanks for the help with Tied notes or held notes

Mostly cross relations are in borrowed chords,Secondary dominants or secordary dim chords, German 6th, Neapolitan 6th, Italian 6th, French 6th, Augmented 6th chords all these chords can have cross relation

How do i use chromatic cross relations as a techique? or when using these chromatic chords to get alot of chromatic cross relations?

I know Bach,Mozart used alot of chromatic cross relations how does a composer use them ?

Chromatic cross relations?

If you play a C note in one chord and the next chord is C# then thats a cross relation and its voiced different to

A cross relation is a chromatic succession that has been split between two voices. That is, one of the notes in the chromatic succession has been displaced by an octave or more. In progressions, cross relations can produce a harsh sound as a result of the interval of the major 7th formed by the two notes. The dissonance is most noticable when the notes of the cross relation are in the outer voices. To lessen the effect of the dissonant interval, put one note of the cross relation in an inner voice

A cross relation is a chromatic succession that has been split between two voices

A false relation (also called cross relation or cross-relation) is a harmonic effect in western tonal music, in which a note (usually the third degree of the scale) precedes the same note flattened by a semitone in a different part in the following chord.

For example, to create a false relation play E-G-E in one part, and C-E♭-C below this. The E flat in the lower part succeeds the E natural in the upper part.

The note and its flattened self may be sounded at the same time in different parts of the same chord; this is known as a simultaneous false relation

That's something different from crossing voices.

Do you know what cross relations are because im sorta of confused what it is

do you know please?