Am i too old to start composing?

Hi guys,

I'm really interested in composing and i have been playing guitar for 2 years (i'm 19) And i was wondering if it's too late to become a good composer since i have started late in my life. I really want to learn how to write a fugue and learn about counterpoint and so-on. So could anyone give me some advice please?

Buy a book on Composing, a book on Music Theory, and a book on harmony.

Read all three of these, and start simple, you'll learn how to write stuff like a Fugue later on. You shouldn't write something like a Fugue just because you want to write a fugue.

hope that helps a little

And no, you are not too old to start composing.

1 other note, you should try to expand your repetoire of music, play different kinds of pieces, and learn from the greats.

that's all I can think of to say right now

First of all thank you for the reply. Would you happen to reccomend me any books in particular? by the way my first 2 classical guitar pieces i learnt was by curulli i learnt his "study in G" and also the waltz version, very clever composer indeed :D anyone else got tips for me?

Kostka and Payne's Music in Theory and Practice; Kennan's Counterpoint; also Adler's The Study of Orchestration, if you're into orchestral stuff. I don't know about composition... I've never read a good book on the subject. One can't really teach "composition" per se, since everyone goes about it differently. The big thing is to stock up on tools, like theory and counterpoint.

As for having any hope of being a good composer, hey, I started when I was 20 and I'm doing very well. You don't have to be Mozart. In fact, if your goal is specifically to be as good as those who started earlier, you are writing music for the wrong reason! :D

Thank you very much johan. It looks like composition is alot of fun when you have you big bag of tools by your side :) And my intention is not to compose as good as bach, or mozart, because that'll definatly never happen :P But i want to make good music so i can play for people, and start a musical branch in my family, and obviously, because i love music :D

You are never too old to start learning. I started composing this past December, I was 22, I just turned 23. I had musical background in piano and several other instruments. I applied what I knew into writing music. I study from articles on the internet, also the composers here who have years of experience have been helping me. I would probably not be a good person to ask for theory advice because I am a beginner, but there are several here who could probably teach it for a living; namely, J. Lee, johannhowitzer, Nico (N.S. Canzano, who is actually on vacation right now in Italy), Evan Duffy (pianobeast), and Marius. There are a lot of others, those are just the ones that helped me personally. Also, chopin, the administrator, but he is never on anymore. Good luck :P

Johann, you just listed the three books I've been recommending to people all year! :P

Anyway, there are quite a few of us who started late. I started at 19 myself, with almost no theory background at that time.

i have started at 37 and have been steadily improving since then. the only thing you need is to want, all others will come in the proper time.

chris was you being sarcastic? or just trolling my thread? Anyway, i thank you all again for reply and giving me the answers that i wanted to hear ;)

Hey that's awesome, i pm nearly everyone on this thread, no replies, and have a troll on my first thread ever, this forum i garuntee will have a bad reputation.

I don't think Schumann started until later on in life...

Another thing... if you really want to get the feel for writing, especially in counterpoint and all, try and listen to at least a few of the great writers; Baroque is the most basic and obvious chordal and structural makeup, so if you're just starting out and want to try and analyze a song or two, Bach or Vivaldi is the way to go.

While I agree about Vivaldi, Bach can be incredibly complex, especially in his counterpoint. I wouldn't recommend studying his music that closely for beginners. Mozart is a much easier nut to crack - his harmonies and voice-leading are much clearer.

I would suggest Brahms' music for analyzation, his chords and form is easier to read for me at least ;)

Composing is not merely learning concepts and theory from various books and places. It is, in my opinion, a craft; and it is synonymious with the ability to improvise music in your mind. This is where you want to put the real work, but you need also be able to relate what you hear with some way of notation. You need to structure your own imagination aswell as open up new possibilites- this is where the intellectual matters come in and that is why we study harmony and counterpoint. This could be considered technical matters, but for me it's rather musical matters and I think that is the true way to go.

What you should do:

*Listen to music and try to put yourself in the mind of the composer and bring as much as you can with you.

*Spend at least an hour each day recording your own mental improvisations(the main line) by either playing them on an instrument or preferably using your own voice. You will notice improvements every session and also your ability to memorize what you improvise. By encouraging the brain to be creative it will open up.

*Train your ears towards perfect relative pitch(being able to recognize intellectually what is played instantaneusly). I'd suggest buying David Lucas Burge Relative Pitch Course or finding some other way.

*Study counterpoint. Counterpoint should be approuched as a musical rather than technical disciple. You want to be able to strive towards expanding your own musical awareness and ability to hear how melodic lines interact. This is done by approuching each little excersise as a true composition. A book may help you to open up your mind to new possibilites, or limit you. Whatever book you choose: learn to sightsing and sing each melodic line of the counterpoint while playing the others. Counterpoint in Composition is an excellent book.

*Study functional harmony. I suggest approuching this after you already have a good contrapuntal ground to stand on, because things will become quite obvious on this matter if you already hear how voices interact.

But harmony is not merely how diffirent chords sound. It's about how chords function within a composition.

I'd suggest getting the book Harmony and Voiceleading by Edward Aldwell.

But above all this: COMPOSE! COMPOSE! COMPOSE!

Encourage yourself to be more creative and you will be.

PS: try to pick up as many books by Arnold Schoenberg, they were all written by a composer for other composers.

/Bojan

His harmony book is rather heavy, though.....I'd suggest something easier to start out with, and then read Sch

i have started at 37 and have been steadily improving since then. the only thing you need is to want, all others will come in the proper time.

Really? :)

i have started at 37 and have been steadily improving since then. the only thing you need is to want, all others will come in the proper time.

I couldn't agree more. I started learning how to write music 2 years ago, at the age of 37. But I'm not doing that alone, I'm taking a writing course from the local conservatory.

Reading books is nice, but nothing will replace having a real teacher commenting on your exercises and giving you valuable feedback and advice. Moreover, the exercises are increasingly difficult but gradually, building on already acquired notions and giving you a chance to actually practice the fundamentals before going to the fancy stuff.

In any case, unless you're born with music already wired in your brain, this is a learning experience that can happen at any time provided you are up to it. When I look back at what I was doing 2 years ago and what I am capable of doing now, I measure the progression. And I have still a lot to learn, but at least it's fun.

It is too late when you are at your deathbed...

or when you're already in a coffin..

but if you're alive with a pen and some papers inside that coffin, or better yet outside...you can still compose :D

[facetious]

If you havn't started by the time you're 12, then you are too old. Without proper instruction in the early stages, and without a formal academic education (minimum a Master's degree, preferably a Doctorate) then you will not succeed. Give up immediately...

[/facetious]

I wanna Doctorate, if only so I can be called 'Dr' :w00t:

Yeah Doctorate can make you quite serious....

for example Beethoven doesn't sound too serious to me. However. make it

Dr. Ludwig Van Bethoven, Phd, LLd, and it sounds a hell lot more serious!

but if you're alive with a pen and some papers inside that coffin, or better yet outside...you can still compose :)

although, if you're in your coffin and buried, you could always DEcompose.