Meet the Composers video interview on GameSpot

GameSpot just published the latest in their series of video interviews with game music composers. The newest interview is with composer Winifred Phillips, whose credits include The Da Vinci Code, Speed Racer, Legend of the Guardians and The Maw, among many others. She was interviewed by GameSpot's Sophia Tong, who writes GameSpot's video game music blog, Sound Byte.

Winifred is a wonderful person, but the Sound Bytes column is particularly idiotic and the interviews are no different. They ask such banal questions. On the bright side, they bring exposure to an under-appreciated artform, so there's that.

So here's where I get whiney about soundtrack music. That's such a weak view to me -- not only is it far from a good understanding of the genres, but it's also like... I dunno. It's like a band that like "ok we're going to sit down and write a song like x" -- and I get that that's the point, but I dunno. It just kinda irritates me.

(As if doing what I do isn't irritating.)

What I do really like is more here:

- and that's where I feel soundtrack people -- they get this, and get it hard. The one-stop-shop mentality is great and only opens more doors as a composer.

I find it interesting too, that she talks about making your face important -- maybe I'm speaking from a lack of knowledge, but would Carl Stalling have felt that way? I mean that's just a very rock-star mentality, and because it's something that the general gaming audience would ignore is kind of interesting.

Good interview though.

Glad you liked the interview! I'm glad to see a site like GameSpot doing video interviews with game composers. A lot of people aren't aware of this music, or the people making it, so its nice to see a site like GameSpot devoting a regular space just to conversations with game composers.

Hi Ferkungamabooboo! Thanks for watching my GameSpot interview and taking the time to reply with your thoughts about it. I read your comments and I thought I would just clarify things a bit, from my perspective. :-)

When you said that I was saying something like "ok we're going to sit down and write a song like x" -- I was just talking about musical genres. As media composers, we're all asked to write in various genres, and we have to get used to being flexible in terms of our skillset and musical expertise. No composer creates in a vacuum. I think we all try to learn from the masters who came before us, and we all try to understand the wealth of musical genres that currently exist. I think that's creatively exciting, and very inspiring.

Thanks for saying that you like my viewpoint on being a "one stop shop". You're right -- it does open up a lot of doors. :-)

When I said that "face time is important", I was talking about meeting with prospective employers at conventions and conferences. While one might assume that an employer would hire a composer strictly on the basis of their music quality, the employer also needs to consider other interpersonal factors like "will this composer be easy to work with?" and "does this composer really understand my project?" Prospective employers are naturally quite nervous. They want to make the right decision, and there are a lot of things for them to consider. A face-to-face meeting goes a long way towards helping them get a feel for what you are like as a person. It can be tremendously reassuring.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments about my interview, Ferkungamabooboo!

Kind regards,

Winifred Phillips

So here's where I get whiney about soundtrack music. That's such a weak view to me -- not only is it far from a good understanding of the genres, but it's also like... I dunno. It's like a band that like "ok we're going to sit down and write a song like x" -- and I get that that's the point, but I dunno. It just kinda irritates me.

(As if doing what I do isn't irritating.)

What I do really like is more here:

- and that's where I feel soundtrack people -- they get this, and get it hard. The one-stop-shop mentality is great and only opens more doors as a composer.

I find it interesting too, that she talks about making your face important -- maybe I'm speaking from a lack of knowledge, but would Carl Stalling have felt that way? I mean that's just a very rock-star mentality, and because it's something that the general gaming audience would ignore is kind of interesting.

Good interview though.

Hi Ferkungamabooboo! Thanks for watching my GameSpot interview and taking the time to reply with your thoughts about it. I read your comments and I thought I would just clarify things a bit, from my perspective. :-)

When you said that I was saying something like "ok we're going to sit down and write a song like x" -- I was just talking about musical genres. As media composers, we're all asked to write in various genres, and we have to get used to being flexible in terms of our skillset and musical expertise. No composer creates in a vacuum. I think we all try to learn from the masters who came before us, and we all try to understand the wealth of musical genres that currently exist. I think that's creatively exciting, and very inspiring.

Thanks for saying that you like my viewpoint on being a "one stop shop". You're right -- it does open up a lot of doors. :-)

When I said that "face time is important", I was talking about meeting with prospective employers at conventions and conferences. While one might assume that an employer would hire a composer strictly on the basis of their music quality, the employer also needs to consider other interpersonal factors like "will this composer be easy to work with?" and "does this composer really understand my project?" Prospective employers are naturally quite nervous. They want to make the right decision, and there are a lot of things for them to consider. A face-to-face meeting goes a long way towards helping them get a feel for what you are like as a person. It can be tremendously reassuring.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments about my interview, Ferkungamabooboo!

Kind regards,

Winifred Phillips

Thanks for stopping by Winifred! Its cool to see some established professionals stop by now and then. God of War is one of my favorite games and the music is great as well!

I am aspiring to a career path similar to yours (who isn't these days haha) This might be a tough question to answer since I am getting kind of deep in to it, but would you have anything to say if I asked you how you balanced creativity in your music with the necessity to not overwhelm the listener? Would you say most of your scores are through composed and develop a theme? I find myself stuck with phrasing stuff classically and when I hear most music for media it does not really follow a typical phrasal pattern a classically trained musician would be used to. unless i am wrong. haha

Long quote that I'm not going to take up space reposting.

Well said, and thanks for stopping by our humble abode.

Hi, Carryonplease. :-)

Thanks for the compliment about the God of War music. That project (as well as the LittleBigPlanet 2 game) was unique for me in that I was fortunate to be a part of a great group of composers -- a music composition team. All my other projects were solo gigs for me, but those two were team efforts, and it was a rewarding experience. :-)

Your question is a really interesting one. I've noticed both thematic and non-thematic writing in the field of videogame music, and I think there is a place for both approaches. For instance, in "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" and "Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole" I took a strongly thematic approach, associating melodies with specific characters and locations. However, in "The Da Vinci Code" I kept the number of themes small and used them judiciously, so that I could concentrate on the suspense and tension needed to sustain an intellectual thriller. In "SimAnimals" I divided my time between statements of a strong theme and post-minimalist, non-thematic textures designed to enhance the mood of a simulation game. I don't think I've ever created a score that completely lacked themes, but there has been variation in how strongly those themes are presented in the score. I think it is important to evaluate the needs of your project and plan your musical approach accordingly.

Personally, I like game music that feels like a journey with twists and turns, unfolding sometimes in unexpected ways. In music like this, the melody can repeat, but there is always variation -- perhaps using varied instrumental choices, rhythmic treatments or chord structures -- so that the journey always feels like it is continuing forward rather than doubling back.

I hope that helped, Carryonplease. :-) Thanks for the great question!

Warm regards,

Winifred

Well said, and thanks for stopping by our humble abode.

Thanks, Andy1044. :-) This is a great place.

-Winifred

Hi, Carryonplease. :-)

Thanks for the compliment about the God of War music. That project (as well as the LittleBigPlanet 2 game) was unique for me in that I was fortunate to be a part of a great group of composers -- a music composition team. All my other projects were solo gigs for me, but those two were team efforts, and it was a rewarding experience. :-)

Your question is a really interesting one. I've noticed both thematic and non-thematic writing in the field of videogame music, and I think there is a place for both approaches. For instance, in "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" and "Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole" I took a strongly thematic approach, associating melodies with specific characters and locations. However, in "The Da Vinci Code" I kept the number of themes small and used them judiciously, so that I could concentrate on the suspense and tension needed to sustain an intellectual thriller. In "SimAnimals" I divided my time between statements of a strong theme and post-minimalist, non-thematic textures designed to enhance the mood of a simulation game. I don't think I've ever created a score that completely lacked themes, but there has been variation in how strongly those themes are presented in the score. I think it is important to evaluate the needs of your project and plan your musical approach accordingly.

Personally, I like game music that feels like a journey with twists and turns, unfolding sometimes in unexpected ways. In music like this, the melody can repeat, but there is always variation -- perhaps using varied instrumental choices, rhythmic treatments or chord structures -- so that the journey always feels like it is continuing forward rather than doubling back.

I hope that helped, Carryonplease. :-) Thanks for the great question!

Warm regards,

Winifred

Cool that was a great answer! thanks!

Cool that was a great answer! thanks!

You're welcome. Glad to help. :yc:

Hello Ms. Phillips,

I'm not exactly a fanatic of video game music in general, but I really enjoy your work (particularly on your most recent involvement). I'd like to thank you for stopping by and clarifying things. If it isn't too much trouble, I had a question of my own: do you feel you have more liberties in composing for interactive media, opposed to film and television?

Thanks, Phil! It really is tremendously gratifying to know that you are enjoying what I've been doing lately, and I appreciate that support very much. :)

Your question is very interesting. From my perspective, composing for interactive media has been quite liberating. But it depends on how you define the word, I suppose. From my experience, music in an interactive project tends to stand out more, takes a more centralized role in the experience, so that lets the composer participate more in the storytelling process. That's tremendously liberating and inspirational. On the other hand, interactive music has to be... interactive. There are a lot of technical constraints to consider, and it takes a while to wrap your head around all that. At the beginning it can feel restrictive. Once I got comfortable with it, I found the technical aspects of the work to be a cool challenge. Its like puzzle solving. Sometimes the puzzle opens up a new part of your brain that you didn't know was there, and all sorts of unique solutions pop up.

-Winifred

Winifred is a wonderful person, but the Sound Bytes column is particularly idiotic and the interviews are no different. They ask such banal questions. On the bright side, they bring exposure to an under-appreciated artform, so there's that.

I'm sorry that my questions aren't high brow enough for you. But I do understand that as a composer, you are likely not learning a whole lot with these interviews which were meant to introduce composers to the gaming audience who doesn't necessarily pay attention to game music or the composer. GameSpot is a site that dedicated to video game coverage, covering video game audio is just something I enjoy doing on the side but our audience are gamers more than audiophiles. The goal was to have the first pass interview be broad and generic, so that people get to "meet" the talented individuals behind the scenes and tie them to some of their work. If you're looking for more detailed interviews about their work, wait for my second pass. But thanks for noticing that I am trying to bring exposure to an under-appreciated art form, that was my primary goal.

I'm sorry that my questions aren't high brow enough for you. But I do understand that as a composer, you are likely not learning a whole lot with these interviews which were meant to introduce composers to the gaming audience who doesn't necessarily pay attention to game music or the composer. GameSpot is a site that dedicated to video game coverage, covering video game audio is just something I enjoy doing on the side but our audience are gamers more than audiophiles. The goal was to have the first pass interview be broad and generic, so that people get to "meet" the talented individuals behind the scenes and tie them to some of their work. If you're looking for more detailed interviews about their work, wait for my second pass. But thanks for noticing that I am trying to bring exposure to an under-appreciated art form, that was my primary goal.

Sophia Tong is doing a fantastic service with her Sound Byte blog on GameSpot! She's bringing attention to the audio side of the video game industry -- not only composers, but sound designers, voice talent and audio directors too! She could not be more supportive of us. Game audio professionals are constantly experimenting with the advances in surround sound implementation, interactivity and increasingly sophisticated standards for the level of quality that is delivered in the final product, and I'm very grateful to Sophia for noticing the strides we're making and shining a spotlight on us. She's doing a wonderful thing, and in my mind, she's wearing a cape and flying over the game industry metropolis! :)

Winifred is a wonderful person, but the Sound Bytes column is particularly idiotic and the interviews are no different. They ask such banal questions. On the bright side, they bring exposure to an under-appreciated artform, so there's that.

Thanks for the kind words, Marius. You have always been a deep thinker about video game music, so while I am 100% supportive of what Sound Byte is doing, I can appreciate your passion for a more in-depth conversation. Its great that more and more journalists and reviewers are pondering the role that game music should play in the overall video game experience.

Hi guys,

First off — cool! It's really great to see you here, Winifred. We really appreciate your presence and willingness to field some questions and enrich our membership with your expertise! :D

To Sophia, an apology for coming down hard on the interview: as you said, your main goal was to draw attention to a deserving and under-appreciated component of the gaming world and you've done that very well. My frustration was not with you and I'm truly sorry for the misdirected ire. I am glad to see you on here too. We're all on the same page here, after all.

I think the goal is to bring to light the importance of game audio not merely as an aesthetic polish but as a driving force behind the experience of the actual gameplay (when done right, of course). Different communities will have different target audiences, so I definitely appreciate the need to tailor an interview for those who will be listening to it. I guess my frustration lies with the fact that we're not yet at a point where a general gaming audience will have enough of an understanding of the subject that we, as journalists, can delve into more technical aspects that help highlight the behind-the-scenes efforts on the part of composers that are otherwise invisible.

I mean we can have general gaming blogs write about the technical aspects of L.A. Noire's motion capture technology, but how many similar articles do we see discussing the frontiers of interactive audio in games, the challenges of integrating live musicians with samples, etc.?

I'm preaching to the choir, but I just wanted to give some context to my outburst as it wasn't intended to be as impolite as it was, and certainly not as personal. So again, very sorry for that, but I'm glad that we can continue the discussion :happy:

I'd like to reinforce the good advice about presentability face-to-face. If you are providing a service or product to a client who may not know a ton about it except what needs to work, then you have to show you took time to learn about the organization and a few of their past projects plus looking professional. Now this does not mean a $100+ hair cut and a suit and tie from Dolce & Gabbana. Rather you should figure it out or ask beforehand the dress code and what materials to bring to provide the best possible environment to cultivate a good relationship.

The comment about composing for interactive intrigues me. I will have to do some research on that.

Hope you had a good visit Winifred and always welcomed back here! Good luck with future endeavours.

I'd like to reinforce the good advice about presentability face-to-face. If you are providing a service or product to a client who may not know a ton about it except what needs to work, then you have to show you took time to learn about the organization and a few of their past projects plus looking professional. Now this does not mean a $100+ hair cut and a suit and tie from Dolce & Gabbana. Rather you should figure it out or ask beforehand the dress code and what materials to bring to provide the best possible environment to cultivate a good relationship.

The comment about composing for interactive intrigues me. I will have to do some research on that.

Hope you had a good visit Winifred and always welcomed back here! Good luck with future endeavours.

Thanks, composerorganist! I think that's great advice about preparing for a face-to-face meeting.

Guys, I've enjoyed this thread very much. Please feel free to contact me through this thread or my Facebook page if you'd like to continue the discussion. I'm having a good time. :)

Thank you for your response: I could imagine working on games would allow more freedom and less obligatory "Tom and Jerry"-esque highlighting as in much of film scoring. As this seems to be turning into an unofficial Q&A, I have a question on behalf of the techies here at YC :P: what are some of the programs you work with on your scores? DAWs, VSTs, notational software, ect.

Thanks, Phil. :-) Here's my answer for the YC techies:

My DAW has been Pro Tools for many years. I tend to stick with the TC Electronic System 6000 instead of plugins, because I like the centralized solution that doesn't take any processing power away from my DAW. Plus, the System 6000 is just so versatile, I have run into very few instances where I would need to look elsewhere. Apart from that, I'll occasionally use the Q10 and Renaissance Axx, but I don't need them very often. I use Sibelius for notation. I host my libraries in Kontakt. That's about it -- I try to keep my workflow simple.

-Winifred

:yc:

The comment about composing for interactive intrigues me. I will have to do some research on that.

There is a wikipedia blurb article on Dynamic music (another name for interactive music). The definition is somewhat simplified, but it is a good starting point -

Dynamic music - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you think it's possible to be a professional composer without having taken any formal music classes? Can it all be taught through books and the internet? Are there any books you'd recommend?

Do you think it's possible to be a professional composer without having taken any formal music classes? Can it all be taught through books and the internet? Are there any books you'd recommend?

I think it is possible to be a professional composer without a formal music education. High school drop-out Danny Elfman is the most prominent example. I don't know if it can all be taught through books and the internet. A lot of the really useful knowledge is just a trial-and-error process, since everyone approaches music composition from their own point-of-view and with their own creative strengths. However, there are two books I remember reading when I was starting out --

The Complete Guide to Game Audio, Second Edition: For Composers, Musicians, Sound Designers, Game Developers (Gama Network Series)

I leaned heavily on this one at the very beginning of my career.

The Fat Man on Game Audio: Tasty Morsels of Sonic Goodness (New Riders Games)

This is a funny book full of entertaining anecdotes about the life of a game composer.

Also, I was interviewed for a couple of books which are helpful references for composers working in video games, television and film:

Keeping Score: Interviews with Today's Top Film, Television, and Game Music Composers

Cash Tracks: Compose, Produce, and Sell Your Original Soundtrack Music and Jingles

Wow, I didn't even realize that those games even had music! I generally play my games on low volume (unless it's guitar hero/band hero) cause the music oftentimes becomes highly distracting to game play. Thanks for visiting our humble page!

In regards to being a professional composer without education, I think it depends largely on where you want to make your mark. Certainly, you can learn the programs required to make film/game music on your own. You could, technically, learn anything on your own. I think education though is important in building contacts/networks for use in traditional concert music. A lot of orchestras, ensembles, and soloists will balk at you if you do not have at least a bachelors in music composition. That may sound like they are snobbish but, it makes sense really. Why spend time learning your work if you didn't spend time developing it? There are lots and lots of composers who don't consider film/game work to be considered true 'art' - and I'm sure there are quite a few film/game composers who snicker at traditional composers for being too outdated. It's a slippery slope really.

I know one thing though, I am definitely learning more about film/game music on this forum. So many things I've either played or seen that I didn't even realize had music to it... quite shocking, I know.

I actually found that the game soundtracks I liked the most were all from games where there is ALWAYS music playing. It may be "background music" but after a hundred hours of gameplay, it becomes part of you.

Thanks for visiting our humble page!

You're welcome! :)

There are lots and lots of composers who don't consider film/game work to be considered true 'art' - and I'm sure there are quite a few film/game composers who snicker at traditional composers for being too outdated. It's a slippery slope really.

Actually, I've never met a media composer who thought concert composers were outdated. John Adams, the well-known concert composer, is one of my personal heroes. While he concentrates on music composition for the concert hall, he has also crossed over into media composition as well. I think we should all be open-minded about exploring the possibilities presented by the various mediums in which we can work. Media composition poses challenges that can stretch one's creativity. Personally, I have found the work to be endlessly creative and fulfilling. :)