Writing an Atonal piece. help with the score? very confused!

Finished writing a piece for choir ssaattbb - took is to my professor and he said i need to write it in terms of the musicians not the composer - i dont see him for 3 weeks.

i understand what he's saying but i need a bit more help...

My piece uses the chords ( in the first 8 bars ) - Emaj - Bbmaj- F#maj - F#maj - Cmaj - Abmaj - Emaj - Ebmaj (then i stay in Eb - ish)

So how would i notate this? as i would end up with double sharps everywhere if i went - - Emaj - A#maj- F#maj- Dmaj - F#maj - Cmaj - G#maj - Emaj - Ebmaj ??

However, my bass lines goes E-D-C# (in terms of notes) in the first bar - so would it go E-C##-C#??

its really confusing me what to do as for me it makes sense to just write the chords i use not have lots of sharps instead of just a natural? as he said singers will look in terms of interval - so a 3rd is easier to read than an augmented 4th - which i understand its just like doing a bloody soduko thing, where if you change one note the rest has to change!

Help!

Here is a hint - try the progression with this (/D = means D in bass , etc)

Fflat major/Fflat, Bflat major/D, G flat major/G flat, C maj/G nat, A flat major/A flat, Fflat major/A flat, E flat major/G. This is all in E flat with a chromatic ascent. I know you have a different bass line but this may help you better understand the opening is not atonal, rather you allude to E flat minor and its relative major G flat major before settling on E flat major.

This is along the lines of what your teacher is talking about. Review your whole piece in this context of E flat major, its parallel minor E flat minor and the relative major of E flat minor - G flat major.

Dominus - I don't think it is the music that is the problem but the notation. That is why I offered a progression using his chords but respelled with an alternate bass. The alternate bass is given just because I don't have the score in front of me.

I know its not atonal, it just doesn't reside in a set key - i will think about this as i have some passages that are in eb, and some in bmaj. The score is hand written and im currently putting it into sibelius...

BTW especially when writing for voice an augmented fourth is not the same thing as a doubly augmented third (which, BTW, I don't see how that would be any easier to read in any case. If a singer can't properly sing a triad in any case you probably don't want them singing your music anyway)

Yeah, going to try it with the choir in the next 2 - 3 weeks, we shall see if its sing-able...

with singers, focus only on individual lines and not vertical spellings. If the soprano's line makes sense with flats, and the basses need sharps, and the tenors alternate...that's fine. If you need to change one augmented 4th to a diminished 5th or whatever...don't feel like all the other parts have to change too.

with singers, focus only on individual lines and not vertical spellings.

I agree. If you're putting it into Sibelius, then you should have the option to select an atonal key sig. If it were me, I'd do that, and then just add the sharps and flats in each chord/measure. If your singers are good enough to be singing a piece with limited tonality, then you shouldn't need to focus on being 100% perfect, you can take some liberties if things get really too complex. Still, looking at your progressions below, I see no real problem. If you're giving each voice part its own staff, that'll make things even easier. Looking at yur progressions again, you should be in pretty good shape. Don't put stuff in A# or G#. Prefer Bb and Ab. Singers would much rather sing an aug4 than a DoubleAug3. The facts are that if your singers aren't performing the piece as a cold sight read, then they can bring a pencil with them to rehearsals and just write it the music if it's too confusing. For me, for example, I usually write in "(m3)" on augmented seconds, because, it's easier to think about the interval as an minor third. But I dont expect the composer to "just write a minor 3rd instead" because the interval's harmonic function is that of a second.

Your base line SHOULD go E-D-C#. Most of the time, there's no reason to start using double sharps and flats unless you're altering an note that is already raised due to what key it's in. In other words, if I wrote a piece in B-Major and i had a progression of V–>V+ –>I, Then my notes would be F#, A#, C#; F#, A#, C##; F#, B, D#. For something like what you're writing, I recommend doing what I said above: Start the piece with an atonal key signature (no sharps/flats, like C-major), and then write in the sharps and flats for each chord (unless they double any sharps/flats written before them in the same measure). Then, when it stays in Eb, change key sig to Eb.

Sorry if all that sounded confusing, lol. If you post a copy of the first few measures of yur score, i can help more. even if you just wanna post a .Sib file.

--Miggy Torres

There's a reason your theory teacher said always avoid augmented 2nds. Not because they sound bad, but because they're friggin hard to sing, even in a tonal context. With sightreading, if you have an interval that sounds like a third, then write it as a third whenever possible.

There's a reason your theory teacher said always avoid augmented 2nds. Not because they sound bad, but because they're friggin hard to sing, even in a tonal context. With sightreading, if you have an interval that sounds like a third, then write it as a third whenever possible.

Try telling that to someone in the middle east, or me. misirlou isn't hard to sing, and I'm not even a singer

P.S. I don't know of any theory teacher that said to avoid neutral 2nds. :evil: