Writing for Wind Ensemble

So hear's here's the deal.....

Say someone like me wanted to write a piece for wind ensemble...

Let's also say that it wouldn't be for a specific wind ensemble, that is to say, I err.. someone like me would

have no idea what the instrumentation would be.

How would you guys approach a situation like this? Or is there a standard "bare essentials" wind ensemble

size that I'm not aware of?

Discuss....

Moderation: Oh my! This is a new one on me: hear's. That deserved moderator's correction AND a comment!

I'll give you instrumentations (the following are instrument parts):

Middle School:

2 flutes

oboe (no solos) maybe double flute

bassoon (no solo) double with bass clar., tenor sax or low brass

3 clarinets

bass clarinet

1-2 alto saxes

1 tenor sax

1 bari sax (double tuba often or bass clar.)

3 trumpets

2 horns (double with alto saxes or low brass maybe even tpts)

2 trombones

baritone (euphonium)

tuba

percussion:

snare drum, bass drum, crash cymbal, suspended cymbal, 2-4 timpani with no pitch changes, bells, triangle

High School:

optional piccolo

2-3 flutes

2 oboes (can write independent parts but put cues in muted trumpet, cl or fl.)

optional english horn (double the solos)

2 bassoons

optional Eb sopranino clarinet

3-4 clarinets

alto clarinet (in Eb)

bass clarinet (may split parts)

soprano sax if you wanna be a hot shot

1-2 alto saxes

1 tenor sax (maybe with a fewsplit parts)

1 bari sax

3-4 trumpets or 2 tpts and 2 cornets or commonly 3 cornets and 2 trumpets

4 horns (double with alto saxes. Don't coun't on having 4, but it's nice)

2-3 trombones

baritone (euphonium) Split parts are ok (2 way split)

tuba (split parts are ok)

optional string bass

percussion:

snare drum, bass drum, crash cymbal, suspended cymbal, 4 timpani with few pitch changes, bells, vibraphone, marimba, tambourine, triangle, etc...

Professional:

1 Piccolo

2-3 flutes

2 oboes (great for solos)

optional english horn (awesome solo instrument)

2 bassoons

Eb sopranino clarinet (overlap with flutes sometimes)

3-6 clarinets (3 still most common) ( 1st clar sometimes split parts)

Eb Alto Clarinet

Bass clarinet (with split)

optional Eb contralto clarinet and/or Bb contrabass clarinet (tuba double or bass clar down an octave. no solos!)

optional soprano sax (Bb)

2 alto saxes

tenor sax with divisi

baritone sax

occasionally bass saxophone (older music)

3 cornets (use lots of mutes)

2 trumpets

4 french horns (great for solos)

3 trombones

1 bass trombone

1 euphonium (baritone) (with divisi)

1 Tuba with divisi

1 String Bass

All percussion you want!!!

hope that helps.

-Mauricio

Excellent.

oboe (no solos) maybe double flute

bassoon (no solo) double with bass clar., tenor sax or low brass

...

tuba double or bass clar down an octave. no solos!

I absolutely disagree with a blanket rule saying no solos for the double reed players and bass instruments. How else are they supposed to learn how to be a solo orchestral player if all they ever do is double other parts?

Where is the contrabassoon? Most pro wind bands have one - a lot of school bands also have one.

I absolutely disagree with a blanket rule saying no solos for the double reed players and bass instruments. How else are they supposed to learn how to be a solo orchestral player if all they ever do is double other parts?

Where is the contrabassoon? Most pro wind bands have one - a lot of school bands also have one.

Well first of all the best situation is when you know the exact instrumentation of the group that you are playing for.

Otherwise, as a composer you must make a decision:

Do you want to write a masterpiece that uses whatever orchestral colors you can imagine,or

Do you want your music played?

The reality is that at lower levels double reed instruments and french horns are often not available and groups will not perform your piece if the solos are written into instruments that they do not have. Also at younger levels double reed players often have poorer tone and intonation.

If you know that the group you are writing for has a good oboist, then fine. If not either give the part no solos or double it on flute or something. As I said, at higher levels these instruments are great for solos.

I forgot to add contrabassoon as an optional instrument for pro groups, but there's no way that it is standard. Also I have NEVER seen a high school group with a contrabassoon. There may be one out there, but it is probably the same group that has golden flutes, 6 harps and the like...

Bottom line is: the guy that asked for advice obviously wanted a general guide, and I gave him one. Also as a composer/arranger you can do whatever you want, but if you want your music played keep orchestration modest.

Madness. No contrabassoon? Most schools systems here have one or have access to one - and it's certainly a standard instrument according to a lot of the major composers who write for wind band. Then you talk about contra alto and contra bass clarinets! They are far more rare, worldwide, than contrabassoons!

Talking of which, there was a contrabass clarinet on ebay recently - I was tempted to buy it...

Also at younger levels double reed players often have poorer tone and intonation.

This is just more of a reason to give them solos - how else can they improve? If they sit there just playing boring accompaniment lines, they will have no incentive for bettering their playing.

And no, there are no golden flutes here or six harps.

Where are you from? Contrabassoons standard? More common than alto clarinets? I believe you, but have never heard of that. I live in Michigan and here many bands have alto clarinets and some contrabass clarinets. I still have only seen the contrabasson in some recitals and with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra.

I bet you live in Texas, huh?

As far as the double reeds, just because they don't have solos doesn't mean they must play boring accompaniments. They are most often playing the melody!!!! (at least oboe).

Originally posted by the wee thingy at the side

From: Leicestershire, the United Kingdom of Queen Michelle

= not Texas = England.

From what I've seen - contrabassoons are quite common in wind bands.

You silly Europeans.... :sleeping:

Lol.

Just kidding, but seriously, Contrafagotti are definetely NOT standard in the U.S.

You probably have horns in Eb and Trumpets in C too, right? Maybe even piccolo in Db

Let's also say that it wouldn't be for a specific wind ensemble, that is to say, I err.. someone like me would

have no idea what the instrumentation would be.

How would you guys approach a situation like this? Or is there a standard "bare essentials" wind ensemble

size that I'm not aware of?

Discuss....

By the way, this is why I generalized the instrumentation.

I never saw a contrabassoon until I saw the Vancouver Symphony play.

There be no Contras' in Canada either....

Where are you from? Contrabassoons standard? More common than alto clarinets? I believe you, but have never heard of that. I live in Michigan and here many bands have alto clarinets and some contrabass clarinets. I still have only seen the contrabasson in some recitals and with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra.[/b]

I said contra alto, not alto. Altos are common. I know of one contra alto in my county (in the schools' system) and there is one contra bass in London that I know of.

I bet you live in Texas, huh?

Go away, you rude thing! *grin*

As far as the double reeds, just because they don't have solos doesn't mean they must play boring accompaniments. They are most often playing the melody!!!! (at least oboe).

Well, they should get some exposure otherwise they will take a long time to be able to play a solo with confidence.

You silly Europeans.... :P

Lol.

Just kidding, but seriously, Contrafagotti are definetely NOT standard in the U.S.

You probably have horns in Eb and Trumpets in C too, right? Maybe even piccolo in Db

Silly Europeans? For having the right instruments?! *grin*

We don't usually have those odd instruments in wind bands! I know of players who have these instruments, but they are usually used for performances of things like Beethoven, Handel and Mozart in orchestral repertoire.

There be no Contras' in Canada either....

I assume you're still talking about wind bands. Canadian orchestras certainly have their contras.

I said contra alto, not alto. Altos are common. I know of one contra alto in my county (in the schools' system) and there is one contra bass in London that I know of.

Well I can speak for the us that both are rare. About 1/2 and 1/2. They usually cover the same part, one in in Bb the other in Eb.

Well, they should get some exposure otherwise they will take a long time to be able to play a solo with confidence.[/b]

Ok, fine write them solos. But if it's for middle school level please be sensible and cue it in another section. Or make it "optional solo"

What's wrong with giving beginner bassoonists a solo in the rite of spring range (and above)?

What's wrong with giving beginner bassoonists a solo in the rite of spring range (and above)?

LOL now I know not to take you too seriously...

Hahaha

Hehe. Seriously, though. All beginner players need to know how to play solos in bands/orchestras or whatever.

Then the opening of the Rite of Spring will be a doddle!

I had a solo, twice! :D

Aha, and here in Newfoundland, our bands hardly have bass clarinet and bari sax. There are no alto Clarinets and Bassoons.

And no piccolos. ='(

Here in Conencticut, we have a good supply of piccolos, a modest supply of Eb clarinets, and NO CONTRABASSOONS. AT ALL. The only time I've ever seen one was at a bassoon convention in New Hampshire, where a kid brought it along from like, Virginia.

That sucks. At my high school we always had piccolos and used contrabassoons/contrabass clarinets/Eb clarinets when the music called for it. Of course the Eb clarinet was the most common used of the three but I've seen all of them in action. I wouldn't write much with them though since I'm pretty sure not everyone in the world have access to them or a big enough budget to afford them.

David - ever played either bassoon part in Mozart's wind octet in C minor?

Where are you from? Contrabassoons standard? More common than alto clarinets? I believe you, but have never heard of that. I live in Michigan and here many bands have alto clarinets and some contrabass clarinets. I still have only seen the contrabasson in some recitals and with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra.

Where are you from? I have NEVER seen an alto clarinet or a contrabass clarinet in a wind ensemble anywhere. In fact, I don't think I've even seen them in Orchestras and Concert Bands...

2 Middle School bands I was in both had contrabassoons, and my High School wind ensemble has a few. But no alto clarinets. Where I come from, those are unheard of. :happy:

~Kal

I've seen a contrabass clarinet used in my band before, but I have also yet to see an alto clarinet.

David - ever played either bassoon part in Mozart's wind octet in C minor?

No. I was due to play in the Gran Partita (for 13 winds) a couple of weeks ago, but couldn't make the rehearsals. I have played very little chamber music...