New to the samples...

I am new to sample world. As of now, i have the horrible sound of midi and would like get sound sample for Sibelius; I have Sibelius 4. Should I upgrade that first before purchasing sound library? And which library is the best to work with for a realistic, professional sound? I also want one that can handle micro tones too and ethic instruments. So put all of this together for me, and help me. I will be saving my money!

Yes you should really update to Sib 6, because sib4 has no vst support to host the libraries only can be added the "kontakt silver" or "kontakt gold" which are very very basic sounds and already a quite old technology, don't recommend it.

Now if we speak about realism and sibelius at the same time we'll have some limits, there are libraries can sound quite realistic but can't work that realistic within sibelius, there are special programs to host the library engine, make the sequence and be able to handle everything you need to make it sound real, we call these programs DAWs, such as Cubase, Sonar, Reason and more, so If what you want is only to open a sib score, expect everything gets loaded automatically, press play and listen, you only have to buy the Pro version of Sibelius 6(.2) and will come with Sibelius Sounds (silimar to kontakt gold but much better and newer) this will make you able to listen and export as mp3.

I'd say more fancy Libraries are not recommended for you right now, you won't be able to use it, maybe later.

Buy Pro Sib 6 is a good investment anyway.

So should i upgrade first to Sib. 6 then get samples? Are there any good samples out there?

I don't know exatly how is the upgrade thing, but if you get Sibelius 6, it comes with samples "Sibelius Sounds Essencials" mostly by Garritan. The Sibelius alone is about 400MB, the rest of the DVD are samples, about 2.5GB. This will work for you for the moment.

To think in better libraries you must thing in getting s good DAW like Cubase, also check if your computer is able to load and process a lot of samples, otherwise you can buy an expensive Vienna Instruments package and will not work for you.

In my very personal opinion, I recommend to prepare yourself with some money and you computer, and buy something heavy like Vienna Symphonic Library (aka VSL), EWQL Symphonic Orchestra (aka EWQLSO), LA Scoring Strings (aka LASS) etc, but not to waste money in semi-cheap libraries like Miroslav Philarmonic CE.

First get the complete Sibelius 6, then you can think in what else you want.

but know that you can't get that sounds within Sibelius, that was made in "Logic" (a DAW), you can keep writing in sibelius with the midi sounds or with the "Sounds Essencials" if v.6 and then export as MIDI and create the Realistic Render in a DAW using a great library like VSL.

I finally upgraded to Sib 6 Pro and yes the sounds are more realistic than in Sib 4. However, they do not approach the DAW libraries SYS speaks of.

Also, it depends on what you want them for. More and more people want some sort of rendition and NOT midi. So if it is for concert music or small orchestra you can stick with Sib 6 for quite awhile (or permanently until the next upgrade comes up). If you want to do game, film music, large orchestral and large music theatre then I'd get to the libraries sooner.

One thing to emphasize, you need to be at a solid level of musicianship and compositional development to even think of DAW sound libraries. Too often I have heard so-so work using great sound libraries.

Thus, I will start a long process of reviewing skills that i already know and learning skills that I don't know. It all begins with harmony, then counterpoint, and then orchestration. I will study scores as I do this, and then create my own music to. This is my plan of attack. I don't think I am missing any skills.

besides those skills, are there any other skills that I would need?

Ani, you're opening a huge and dangerous can of worms. First of all, do yourself a favour and don't work with professional samples in Sibelius. Sibelius 6 is, in my opinion, the best notation software on the market right now so I highly recommend you upgrade, but understand that it's designed and built for notation, not working with samples. These are two vastly different worlds and workflows and being a good composer will not help you make realistic renderings.

Of course being a good composer ensures that you're writing music that is better and will thus sound great when properly rendered, but my point is that the skills required to produce that rendering are very technical and must be learned additionally.

The fact that Finale and Sibelius can now load VST and other plugins is a step in the wrong direction as far as I'm concerned. I explain this in some detail here:

http://blog.mariusmasalar.me/daws-vs-notation-software-why-theres-no-conte

But as a summary, you need to understand that getting a really realistic sound requires expensive samples, a very powerful computer, and a piece of sequencing software like Cubase, Logic, ProTools, Reaper, Sonar, etc. Those are specifically designed as environments for serious sample-based audio work where the end product is a realistic audio file. Notation software is made for those whose final product is sheet music and a rough sketch audio that functions only as a vague reference.

So your last question of whether or not there are more skills you need is answered with a resounding yes. There is an entire world of new skills that you need to learn and practise in order to be able to produce realistic renderings that have very little to do with purely musical skills like harmony and orchestration. MIDI sequencing, basic sound theory, mixing, production effects work, etc. etc. Buying an expensive sample library will not magically make your work sound good. Especially the more advanced libraries require a sizable investment of time and energy to learn to wield them to their fullest, and you can't do that from within a notation program no matter how much time you spend because they're simply not designed for it.

My suggestion is that you review your priorities and end goals and decide on your next steps accordingly. Unless you have a lot of time and money on your hands, in which case dive right in and good luck!

and the worst thing on this, is that everybody seems to seek (and only some do find) the True Realism in different ways :facepalm: .... :toothygrin:, is not a program with a tutorial "load here, click here, and export" with a unique process one can learn, might be stronger tendencies to do it, but the truth is that everybody has his own style on handling the libraries, reverbs, buses/channels/sends etc, is just like composing, everybody do it differently.

Thank you for the input guys. Right now I am stuck in the worm whole of sibelius 4 and Midi. I am fine with it for now. In the future, though, I would like to upgrade to better system. SYS65 what is your method here? Your approach? what tools do you use?

Well I have two different process, I write in Sibelius (right now v.6.1) I use Edirol Orchestral for it, becausr is very agile and easy to handle via midi messages

i.e I write as technique text Ctrl+T something like this

~P3,0,1 CC7,65 CC10,75 which means load the trumpet sound, set volume to 65, and Pan to 70 (to the R) this kind of message for each staff, edirol understands this and loads everything instantly.

Now, Edirol Orchestral is a synthesizer that tries to emulate the orchestral sounds artificially, they are not recordings of each note of real instruments, so the realism is not achieved, is nothing but a synth sound, BUT differen to Midi Edirol allows me to export as audio and is for me a good option to write in sibelius.

Once I finish my work, a 2nd process is pendent, the actual "Realistic" recording, for this one I export my work as midi from sibelius, and import into Cubase, where my concern is not longer the composition itself (orchestration, developmen, form etc) all is decided already the only think matters now is the realism of the recording.

Being in cubase which is a totally different ambient, piano rolls, tracks etc, I begin to load my real instruments from Vienna Symphonic Library and if necessary, from other libraries, each instrument needs to be re-configured in volume and all other settings, very often edit the note velocities and create automations. Instruments are sent to several tracks with different reverb, this way the original signal is not modified by a reverb but the reverbed instrument sounds in addition to the original one which remains always present in the mix, of course much more adjustements are needed to the instruments like EQs and other effects.

I must say that I'm a beginer in this second process because I didn't have Vienna, and because all my experience in electronic music such as Dance and Trance seems to be so different that cannot be applied to realistic orchestras recordings, it's simply all different.

An excellent reverb (a third part software) is vital for the realism of the recording.

Marius is the one for tell you things about all this, but I say you musn't worry that much yet, and don't feel bad if your first so called "realistic" recording doesn't sound realistic at all, nobody achieves that from the first render, you'll learn.

SYS65: I have to say that's a long process for you. As for me, I will be refreshing my composition mind. This means review harmony, learning counterpoint and orchestration, and then composing my own works (and positing them posting them here)! Step one is underway. I will be still in midi till I can afford the upgrades!

Step two will be posting new works here!