Seeking Phillip Glass like composer for indie feature film (Non paid)

We are currently in post production stage of an independent feature film (90 mins) and require of a composer to score it for us.

If you have anything in your catalogue that is repetitive and intense and Philip Glass-ish, we would love to hear from you. This clip shows what we are after -

The film was shot in Australia, over the span of 4 months and was made with very little budget, so no pay for this job, however you will be credited, and have your work in a film by an award winning director. The film will be submitted into international film festivals across the globe and has the potential to do well.

The film is a highly kinetic story that follows the unrelenting paranoia that besets a teenage girl after she overhears an idle threat leveled at her mother. What follows is a strange odyssey in which the character sets out on a misguided mission to obtain help from a variety of sources.

Please send me a link to your work or appropriate pieces you have for the film and shoot me an email to hassallgrovehouse@gmail.com

No pay = no work.

We are currently in post production stage of an independent feature film (90 mins) and require of a composer to score it for us.

If you have anything in your catalogue that is repetitive and intense and Philip Glass-ish, we would love to hear from you. This clip shows what we are after -

The film was shot in Australia, over the span of 4 months and was made with very little budget, so no pay for this job, however you will be credited, and have your work in a film by an award winning director. The film will be submitted into international film festivals across the globe and has the potential to do well.

The film is a highly kinetic story that follows the unrelenting paranoia that besets a teenage girl after she overhears an idle threat leveled at her mother. What follows is a strange odyssey in which the character sets out on a misguided mission to obtain help from a variety of sources.

Please send me a link to your work or appropriate pieces you have for the film and shoot me an email to hassallgrovehouse@gmail.com

Well, sorry to tell you... but, as most of the member community is of three fields: young and inexperienced just looking for guidance, college students looking for constructive criticism of their progress, or professionals sharing their opinions with the other two categories, I don't think that ANY of those groups are going to take a non-commission project simply because you ask us to. haha. Although, the task doesn't seem difficult, Glass's music isn't difficult to emulate AT ALL. In fact, it's quite easy.

Composers just don't work for free. That's why we get degrees in it. ;)

Says you.

I'm not a pro, but I have a degree. I'm not trying to make millions being a composer. It ain't my calling. And they don't sound like they're a pro video company.

But I am a composer. And they are a video company. Let us semi-amateurs go meddle in the corner.

Side note: never emailed me back.

Well that's interesting, Ferk. I didn't know that about you. I concede my comment then, but I stand by my opinion that if I'm gonna take the time to get a degree in something, I better be paid for it later. Otherwise, why spend the time? And, I guess you could say because you enjoy the process and the hobby. And, I'd say... well, I just don't have the time to do that. haha. For me, it's degrees in the things I love and then get paid for it. Granted, I'm not just getting a composition degree. I've got business and voice and composition to take care of in the next 5 years of undergrad school.

But, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the majority of people don't wanna do a whole project like that for free. It's just too time consuming.

Yeah, and of course everyone is different. If you're going the pro route, that's your thing haha.

But neither of my degrees are directly what I do (but believe you me, my Poli Sci degree makes the marketing job I have a lot easier!), and I couldn't be happier in that regard. Being a professional composer, like being a professional musician, isn't what I ever saw in my cards -- just not focused enough to market and search for jobs intelligently, with a good dose of romantic artist thrown in for spice. Then again, you get what you pay for.

Marius had an interesting point once about how accepting free jobs dilutes the market for professional composers. I think really differently, and that the market for people like him and Andy and anyone else who wants to be a real pro isn't the same market for people like me. Different buyers, different sellers. A lot more craigslist than call-for-works.

But yeah, BFA ftw/l.

Yeah, and of course everyone is different. If you're going the pro route, that's your thing haha.

But neither of my degrees are directly what I do (but believe you me, my Poli Sci degree makes the marketing job I have a lot easier!), and I couldn't be happier in that regard. Being a professional composer, like being a professional musician, isn't what I ever saw in my cards -- just not focused enough to market and search for jobs intelligently, with a good dose of romantic artist thrown in for spice. Then again, you get what you pay for.

Marius had an interesting point once about how accepting free jobs dilutes the market for professional composers. I think really differently, and that the market for people like him and Andy and anyone else who wants to be a real pro isn't the same market for people like me. Different buyers, different sellers. A lot more craigslist than call-for-works.

But yeah, BFA ftw/l.

You make a ton of sense! They are very different markets, I guess. Thanks for the insight.

Since I was mentioned, I feel I should explain a bit what Ferk quoted me saying since the paraphrasing was slightly misleading.

While there are certainly different markets, my point was slightly broader and wasn't actually about accepting free jobs diluting the market for pros. As you say, pros aren't after free jobs so if anything it would be clearing the path a bit. What I take issue with is the principle of accepting free work as a norm. Whether or not you're in it as a profession does not absolve you of the minimal responsibility of maintaining the very basic notion that artists deserve to be compensated for their efforts because their work is no less valuable than anyone else's on such a production.

For wannabe pros, it's a fine line and a trap. You think to yourself "ok I have to do some free gigs to get exposure and build my portfolio and reputation and then I will reach the magic line, cross it, and people will suddenly become inclined to pay me for my work." The good news is that the magic line actually exists. The bad news is that you're the one who's got to draw it, and decide when, and how.

In my experience, an often-encountered proposal is something like this: "We can't pay you for this one but if we like your work, we'll come back to you when we have a paying project and then you'll get paid for sure!" Or the related but even more unlikely "We can't pay you up front, but you'll make plenty on the backend royalties and we'll give you your payment once we get paid." Sometimes you've got to take these jobs, for a variety of reasons, but don't be naive about it. Unless you're already a pro, chances are about 90% that the money you get up front is the only money you're ever going to see from the project, so make sure it's enough to make it worth your while.

Which brings me back to working for free and what Ferk was saying about the distinction between markets. The unfortunate truth is that if you teach directors that you're willing and able to do great work for free, then they have no motivation to start paying you. You can expect them to become friendly and then it becomes a "buddy" thing and next thing you know, you're Sucker McFavour. You don't want to be that guy. At the end of the day if you don't respect your work enough to charge for the time it takes you to produce it, no one else is likely to.

Today most young directors have very little understanding and very little respect for what composers do. I don't say that as a slight against them, but as a warning and a motivation to change it — a responsibility that falls largely on the shoulders of the young composers working for them. They're emerging in an age where it's all too easy to find dirt-cheap library tracks that are "good enough" and, worse, to find great music and steal it from the artists without the foggiest notion of it being a crime or at the very least hugely disrespectful. Copyright integrity aside, I think at the very least it's vital for these folks to be given some perspective on what goes into producing the music and why they should value it as much as any of the other aspects of their production.

In Ferk's case (and others in similar positions) he does respect his work and he's choosing to offer his efforts as a charity. There's nothing wrong with that on the surface so long as he's satisfied and fulfilled by it; all I'm saying is that artists who are lending their talents to someone else (rather than just producing music for its own sake) need to be aware that their interactions and decisions are affecting the emerging generation of game designers, film directors, producers, etc. and that an awareness of that fact will hopefully motivate them to have some integrity — to not be afraid of saying no to ridiculous gigs, of explaining why they charge what they do, of standing by their rate (within reason, no need to be utterly obstinate), and to being as damn good as they can possibly be (musically and personally) so that every director they work with comes away from the experience thinking "man, I could never go with library tracks again."

That, at least, is what I strive for, and whenever people ask me (which they frequently do) about these kinds of things, I tell them what I've just said above. Celebrating the synergy of creative collaboration between director and composer is a big priority of mine. Demonstrating the tangible difference between a library track that sort of fits the cut and a custom score that is MADE for it.

I'll just end by quoting from a thing I wrote on my blog some time ago:

I often talk to other young composers and they ask me questions about their first gigs and whether or not they’re getting ripped off. There’s a really funny little clause that pops up in most work offers these days and it’s an extremely perplexing one. It goes something like this:

“This is a small project, so we can’t pay you, but we’re offering full credit and a free copy of the final product as compensation.”

I’m sorry, what?

Credit and a free copy is excellent, but it’s not compensation. It’s common courtesy. If you use someone’s art in your production, stating where you got it from in the credits isn’t some special negotiable honour you’re doing them, it’s the most fundamental tenet of working with creative content. It’s basic attribution of effort. It’s the law, in point of fact, and so trying to spin it as some sort of favour is disingenuous.

The point isn’t that you always need to pay your people though. You should whenever humanly possible, even if it’s just with pizza and beer, but I know that sometimes there isn’t even a shoestring budget. It’s a guerilla-style effort. That is also totally fine. I’ve done plenty of work for free over the years, and I continue to do work for free, but only for people who — despite having no budget — truly appreciate the efforts of their team, who inspire them to great artistic achievement, and who are putting together a product that allows everyone’s work to shine, or delivers an important message, or is moving, or is simply beautiful.