Call For Works - Editions Musica Ferrum

Apart from the commercial announcement which can be found HERE"]http://www.youngcomp...ing-house/]HERE[/url], I'd like to discuss the possibility of publishing your works through Editions Musica Ferrum.

As you may notice in the linked thread, two of the YC composers are already represented by us (composerorganist (Chris) and Jason (Woodruff). Both of these composers have been excellent in the communication with us and their works are quite frankly great and deserve all the attention that they can gather!

So if you feel that you have works that should be published, please contact us on info@musica-ferrum.com . We cannot guarantee that the works will be published and of course we reserve the right to... say no!

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We do offer:

* Competitive %

* the possibility to retain to the rights of the work.

* Promotion of the work and the chances to get the work(s) performed, recorded and perhaps videotaped.

* The editing of your scores to a publishable level.

and many other features...

Visit the thread linked above, and our website at www.musica-ferrum.com . Feel free to post here, or in PM or e-mail us for more information.

Most importantly: Keep composing!

So, if we get to keep the rights, what's stopping a composer from giving them to another publisher simultaneously?

You get to keep the rights AFTER the contract has ended (lasting 5 years). ;)

So, is this another advertisement or is anyone going to actually discuss anything?

I'm personally not ever going to use a publisher since I want to give all my music output through CC (haven't got a page set up yet though,) since having music locked away for 70+ years is not my style.

Hiya you grumpy SSC! ;)

1. This is different than advertising (as the bottom thread shows)... I just linked the thread in YC and nowhere else (though I kinda messed up the link... Must edit that).

2. You're not being really careful with what you're readin'. YOU keep the rights and your dealings with EMF stops in 5 years. If you like what we're doing you're most welcome to carry on publishing your works with us, otherwise you can just grab the scores and go (though we will keep all the copies until the stocks vanish). So in other words we are NOT locking your copyrights, and certainly not for 70 years after your death...

3. I actually agree with you in regards to the length of copyrights (WOW! we're discussing something), but at the same time I've been burned with CC license and I would suggest people who are serious about what they do to steer clear of such licenses... (and you may recall that my stuff used to be in IMSLP... And I still support IMSLP and what it does)!

2. You're not being really careful with what you're readin'. YOU keep the rights and your dealings with EMF stops in 5 years. If you like what we're doing you're most welcome to carry on publishing your works with us, otherwise you can just grab the scores and go (though we will keep all the copies until the stocks vanish). So in other words we are NOT locking your copyrights, and certainly not for 70 years after your death...

3. I actually agree with you in regards to the length of copyrights (WOW! we're discussing something), but at the same time I've been burned with CC license and I would suggest people who are serious about what they do to steer clear of such licenses... (and you may recall that my stuff used to be in IMSLP... And I still support IMSLP and what it does)!

I didn't imply no.2 at all.

My problem is mostly that either I make it public domain or CC, there's no other alternative. I mean I could just as well give it away without licensing it, but I just want to encourage people to adapt. I mean literally everyone downloads scores and recordings online no matter if you want it or not, so I figure I might as well per-emptively just give the stuff openly. I mean my music is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things so I don't really mind making it accessible.

We've already had this discussion a way back, and I remain firm in the same position I had. Until copyright legislation adapts to the 21st century people should use workarounds, if anything as protest.

I think also the model for selling scores like you have there is too archaic. I would much rather do it like a subscription service that allows access to not only the scores but actual performances of them. I mean if you're constantly publishing new things, it'd be a good idea since if you're "subscribed" you'd always get access to latest scores and recordings, so say if you have a duo or a trio that's looking for new music always, you could have different rates for just getting updates/access to one type of music, etc. Something like the naxos library, but with scores as well as recordings. Hell, I know a lot of people who would pay for such a thing, myself included.

Convenience above all, really. Having the stuff available digitally as well as print copies is also a must. I think in the end your target audience are ensembles and performers looking for new music, that's not a lot of people as it is. If your stuff isn't extremely convenient to access there's a whole other universe of literature they can turn to.

I also don't understand how you're planning to promote the music without having recordings or anything like that. Dunno. In this day and age I would never try to establish a publishing house the old fashioned way, much less for modern music. If anything, if the compositions are modern I suppose I want them to reflect the changing times including in the way they're accessed as well, haha.

Why not hang on to the rights for as long as you please (example: For as long as you live) and then live a letter saying that you leave copyrights in public domain? Simple as that!

Secondly, you're really not thinking things through or in any commercial sense. Promoting stuff costs quite a lot of money, despite the fact that you don't believe so. Additionally music NEEDS to be printed and NEEDS to be bind. This costs money. I'm doing all this through the publishing house! And I'm doing it at a great quality, as opposed to any inhouse lazer printer.\

Also who said I don't have recordings? Who on earth implied that? I have recordings for every work that I publish, of my own, and many others as well. Just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there! ;)

Finally, the publishing house is a day old (not even that). Personally I would hold on saying to much before seeing a little more. Unless you've already decided for yourself how you feel about this, in which case... there's nothing more to discuss! ;) But I can promise you that there is.

SSC, you seriously don't know how publishing works. Get an internship or something at a real publishing company that prints and promotes composer's music and get a clue.

Nikolas, cool stuff you got going. The 5-year term is something unique that I haven't seen very often. I'll keep your company in my mind if I ever want to publish.

Hi Nikolas, I have seen your site. It looks amazing, and frankly I think its very brave to start something huge like this, especially in Greeces current condition.

I have a question. Say I want to publish say a set piano preludes about 14 pages long. What would it cost me to make the score being published, if you decide to do so?

Tokke: Thanks.

Jcraner: It's utterly free. We do NOT charge for the services we do. We trust in the composers we work with and we believe in the works we publish! Ergo we think that there is a reason for these works to be published! Simple as that! At the same time it does mean that we are rather strict in how we decide which works get published, etc...

On a personal comment: I find that it is brave, but at the same time it would be stupid not to do it. In order for EMF to launch there was no loan involved and all interested parties and involved collaborators have been fully paid! There is a great trust in the works we publish and even more to the composers we represent! It's music that, I, personally, love to listen to and perform! I've got CDs of the works in my car... :)

Nick, great stuff man!

Why not hang on to the rights for as long as you please (example: For as long as you live) and then live a letter saying that you leave copyrights in public domain? Simple as that!

After I die I'm too dead to care about what happens to my music, copyright law, or anything. To me it's more important what happens when I'm still alive, and as such I'd rather protest in any way I can.

Unless you've already decided for yourself how you feel about this, in which case... there's nothing more to discuss! ;) But I can promise you that there is.

Uh, yeah but you didn't address anything I actually said. I still think a subscription model + selling printed scores is the best option. I'm not saying you should give the stuff away, I'm saying you should make it convenient.

Like I said before, SSC, if you knew how real publishing companies worked, its more than convenient.

After I die I'm too dead to care about what happens to my music, copyright law, or anything. To me it's more important what happens when I'm still alive, and as such I'd rather protest in any way I can.

I'll tell you what: If you can offer your stuff on CC license you can do whatever you please. a 5 year license won't do you much harm and either way in the end you CAN do what you please with your music, despite the current copyright laws, right? ;) so complain all you want, but as far as YOUR music is concerned you can do as you please.

Uh, yeah but you didn't address anything I actually said. I still think a subscription model + selling printed scores is the best option. I'm not saying you should give the stuff away, I'm saying you should make it convenient.

Apart from your assumptions and your decline to address how we work in EMF, and apart from the fact that I told you about the existence of recordings and so on... what else is missing?

Let's be honest here, I won't offer a free business setup to anyone nor will I give an economic analysis of the world of publishing, etc. Your idea about subscription + printed scores (which should be the last thing to talk about in order not to claim that I 'haven't address anything') is not too bad, but there are a few drawbacks... For example:

a. All subscription based models work either on digital means (itunes, amazon, etc), or if there are physical objects it's VERY clear on what you will be getting (12 copies, once every month of Time magazine...). Naxos has a subscription based model but... it's digital. It's not going out and sending CDs to customers, are they? They are still selling their CDs (correct me if I'm wrong... I'm not subscribed to anything).

b. All fair and square but since EMF just launched, don't you think it's too difficult to establish such a trust so as to offer subscriptions? I mean really... would you subscribe? You didn't even take a closer look before talking (otherwise you would've noticed that more than half the works have recordings attached (or excerpts) and every work has preview pages of the score)... If you haven't had a look and you posted about it, would you... give your money on any kind of promise I'd do (for future comings of works)? don't get me wrong it's not unreasonable to think about a subscription model but right now it's insane to even consider it business wise.

c. Digital scores do exist but do not sell for many reasons, which I won't quote right now. There IS a reason that no serious publishing house has gone into the PDF option (or other format). Plus I loath DRM (believe it or not...). And btw, I totally dislike the current copyright laws as well! ;)

Anyhow I AM glad to be doing this discussion with you! Really... And I'm not 100% negative on a subscription model, but it's certainly not the right time! :)

a. All subscription based models work either on digital means (itunes, amazon, etc), or if there are physical objects it's VERY clear on what you will be getting (12 copies, once every month of Time magazine...). Naxos has a subscription based model but... it's digital. It's not going out and sending CDs to customers, are they? They are still selling their CDs (correct me if I'm wrong... I'm not subscribed to anything).

b. All fair and square but since EMF just launched, don't you think it's too difficult to establish such a trust so as to offer subscriptions? I mean really... would you subscribe? You didn't even take a closer look before talking (otherwise you would've noticed that more than half the works have recordings attached (or excerpts) and every work has preview pages of the score)... If you haven't had a look and you posted about it, would you... give your money on any kind of promise I'd do (for future comings of works)? don't get me wrong it's not unreasonable to think about a subscription model but right now it's insane to even consider it business wise.

c. Digital scores do exist but do not sell for many reasons, which I won't quote right now. There IS a reason that no serious publishing house has gone into the PDF option (or other format). Plus I loath DRM (believe it or not...). And btw, I totally dislike the current copyright laws as well!

I said:

I still think a subscription model + selling printed scores is the best option.

Get it? I think there's a lot of people who like to get their stuff in print, and if you have to perform it it's very obvious you'll need it in print. However just selling the music printed isn't going to help people look into the music to see if they like it. I mean that's why you need recordings (which you say you already have, okay.) I'm not sure if you plan to sell the recordings as well either (or rather how are you going to sell them?)

Another thing is that, well, if people are subscribed and they're not getting new stuff each month (or during the month) obviously they'll stop subscribing. I don't see a problem with it all being digital since you're still selling the printed versions anyway.

What I'm getting at is that contemporary music is a niche "market," and that as it is right now it's pretty inconvenient to access the music. I mean, all the public domain music is getting represented by the IMSLP right now as the main force that should make a lot of publishers making money on publishing warhorses' works worry, since people actually really need access to that music for a lot of reasons. Hell, I know of a couple of underground sites for composers where entire libraries of modern music are exchanged, since literally all students and a lot of people need the stuff but it's horribly stupid not to use the internet for what it's good at: distribution.

Get it? I think there's a lot of people who like to get their stuff in print, and if you have to perform it it's very obvious you'll need it in print. However just selling the music printed isn't going to help people look into the music to see if they like it. I mean that's why you need recordings (which you say you already have, okay.) I'm not sure if you plan to sell the recordings as well either (or rather how are you going to sell them?)

As I said... subscribing model won't help to preview stuff (especially since it's not readily available...). You're talking about preview possibilities, which is right there in the website, in youtube, etc... And as I said there's a lot more going on, but it's simply too early to show/tell! Get it? ;)

Another thing is that, well, if people are subscribed and they're not getting new stuff each month (or during the month) obviously they'll stop subscribing. I don't see a problem with it all being digital since you're still selling the printed versions anyway.

Well, let me break it down a little further:

a. Right now EMF sells 29 works and has secured another 20 works for 2012 for now. Could be more, could be slightly less... It's VERY difficult at this point, and with 3 days of running time to actually predict anything for the future in order to offer any promise of 'getting new stuff each month'.

b. Offering digital format straight away is like putting your head on the mouth of the lion right now, sadly. I'd love to go all digital (it would certainly save us money), but the very fact that P2P services would love it as well is a draw back, don't you think?

What I'm getting at is that contemporary music is a niche "market," and that as it is right now it's pretty inconvenient to access the music. I mean, all the public domain music is getting represented by the IMSLP right now as the main force that should make a lot of publishers making money on publishing warhorses' works worry, since people actually really need access to that music for a lot of reasons. Hell, I know of a couple of underground sites for composers where entire libraries of modern music are exchanged, since literally all students and a lot of people need the stuff but it's horribly stupid not to use the internet for what it's good at: distribution.

Again... you're mixing things:

Distribution of info/preview material? Or distribution of services? Or distribution of media? I don't like DRM, so a PDF file would be completely unsecure over the net and I certainly don't think any of us in EMF would like that. Distribution of info/preview material is already there and happening.

You're mostly talking about marketing which is all and swell. (BTW, IMSLP wouldn't touch EMF since all EMF scores are from living composers and copyrighted).

In other words. There's a website, there's recording for more than 50% of the works and counting. There's youtube, you can preview pages from the scores and for those scores which are on youtube you can get the full score streaming through there. There's me talking about the works (and actively so), there's every composer who is living and breathing, thus you could have access to them as well! What more do you want? Cause from my point of view and from everybody in EMF this is already A LOT!

Hell, I know of a couple of underground sites for composers where entire libraries of modern music are exchanged, since literally all students and a lot of people need the stuff but it's horribly stupid not to use the internet for what it's good at: distribution.

This is quite interesting. As I said above there's every possible information, but the full score available RIGHT NOW. FOR FREE! On the web, as far as EMF is concerned. Don't you dare tell me that these composers do not have access to these information cause it's right down silly. Give me their info and I'll personally make sure each and everyone gets an e-mail from EMF about everything that is available (full recordings, preview of pages, info from the composers themselves, etc). Or is this not enough? You better tell me that it's a matter of cost/effectiveness which should be something we could very well talk about, or plain greed!

The IMSLP phenominon is mostly true, except for one big fact: People are still buying the printed scores from publishing houses even if its in Public Domain. A music score is more than just the notes on the page. The type of page matters, a whole lot, in fact, to performers.

There's youtube, you can preview pages from the scores and for those scores which are on youtube you can get the full score streaming through there.

I like that the most. If you don't do subscriptions, you could make sure that each piece on the site is represented like that. Of course, you could pick a different site than youtube, considering it blocks everything in some countries.

I like that the most. If you don't do subscriptions, you could make sure that each piece on the site is represented like that. Of course, you could pick a different site than youtube, considering it blocks everything in some countries.

Thanks.

We do realize that selling stuff of the internet, needs some special care and promotion techniques.

At the same time, I do hope you realize that we cannot just offer everything out and hope some kind hearts will buy the scores... Some things need to be kept for the paying customers...

And, yes, we are also working to put stuff to vimeo, but as with everything it takes time. (if you have any other suggestions on where to host videos (recordings are hosted to our own website at www.musica-ferrum.com), then by all means share!)

At the same time, I do hope you realize that we cannot just offer everything out and hope some kind hearts will buy the scores... Some things need to be kept for the paying customers...

And, yes, we are also working to put stuff to vimeo, but as with everything it takes time. (if you have any other suggestions on where to host videos (recordings are hosted to our own website at www.musica-ferrum.com), then by all means share!)

Vimeo is good. Also, I'm not saying you shouldn't sell the printed scores, people like to buy that. Specially if they want to preform something they'll not settle for some PDF most of the time.