Connor_Helms Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Just some notes I collected after reading a few things fingers intervals possible t-i seconds, thirds, fourths t-m fifths and sixths t-r sevenths to tenths fingers.........intervals possible t-i.................seconds, thirds, fourths t-m...............fifths and sixths t-r................sevenths to tenths you can't expect them to use their pinky, so yea 4 notes per hand. if you're doing mutes or harmonics be sure you know if it's possible to play them at that tempo, the best way is to ask a harpist virtuoso, otherwise you'll have to use your common sense/practical judgement to the best of your ability. keep in mind that you get a better sounding timbre in flat keys because the strings are at their longest in the flat pedal setting. you can work around this with enharmonic spellings in sharp keys but that's headache for all involved imo. you can tune enharmonically for a stronger sonority, especially useful in the higher registers to get the loudness back. you can tune 1-2 pedals at a time on either side, the pedals on the right-foot side are: DCB on the left foot side: EFGA (Did Columbus Bring Enough Food when Going to America?) so you could adjust DC with your right foot, as well as EF with your left, all simultaneously. Don't expect to do this with say, DB or EG or EA or FA for instance, only when you are tuning one side at a time are such pedal changes possible because it requires both feet. the rule of thumb for proficient harpists is to allow 6 seconds to change ALL the pedals one by one, so about a half a second per pedal. gauge that with the tempo of whatever you're composing. unless it's a highly chromatic passage, the only pedal indication you need are at the very beginning, and if you're just using a standard key signature (G minor or A major rather than G harmonic minor or A double harmonic major for instance) you usually don't even have to do that. harpists spend a lot of time going through writing out their own personal pedalings in their part scores, just like organists will write out their own personal manual indicators. for harmonics, as long as the entire compass is a fifth or less, the left hand can do up to 3 at a time, the right can only ever do one because the harp rests on the harpists right shoulder so they have to use the right hand a bit differently. that assumes that we're talking about a left handed player. Well that about does it. Would be great to turn this into a collective, perhaps I could add tips from others to this OP as we get them. One thing I'd like is to have intervals possible between each finger for each hand, rather than just in relation to the thumb. Quote
Connor_Helms Posted May 7, 2012 Author Posted May 7, 2012 same reason shamisen players normally don't, it's just not common enough. you'd have to do it on a player by player basis. Quote
dscid Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 So, which is it? I remember Adler saying that the pinky should not be used; he never said that it could, even sparsely. Can the harp infrequently perform 9-10 note chords? If it's a player by player basis, where is the difficulty in throwing your pinky in there? Is it only the stretch/strength of the pluck? Quote
Connor_Helms Posted May 7, 2012 Author Posted May 7, 2012 the stretch is no larger than with other fingers. try playing an octave with the middle and thumb on piano, do the same with pinky. notice it's not that much easier. I imagine nowadays a lot of players at the top of the game can do pinky just fine, and really I don't see the problem with 9/10 note chords even for beginners provided you don't make them stretch oddly. would love to get more opinions, as that's what this thread is all about after all, not pretending I know every little thing about harp. I personally know but one harpist, never seen them using a pinky but they aren't a virtuoso either. Quote
June Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 Writing any harp music that uses the pinky will be perceived as amateurish. Just that simple. (Ask any harpist.) 1 Quote
siwi Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 Do you people really think that all the virtuoso harpists of history haven't all considered exactly the same thoughts you're writing here? Don't you think that if what you are suggesting were possible, composers and performers would have exploited it by now*? Harpists don't use the pinky. Ever. Believe me, I know several pro-standard harpists well. This has nothing to do with the strength of the fingers but simply the fact that if the hand is playing a chord involving the fourth finger the little (pinky) finger could barely reach any further. Whilst it may seem that the stretch is easily acomplished on the piano, that is because a pianist presses keys with the hand horizontal. A harpist, on the other hand, plucks strings with the hand held vertical. The angle of the wrist, fingers, and all the tendons and joints connecting them are at a completely different angle and as such the little fingers becomes dramatically less useful. The harpist cannot stretch the hand as much due to having to reach round the strings to pluck them. you can work around this with enharmonic spellings in sharp keys but that's headache for all involved imo Not really, just get used to it. All the harpists I know can sight-read these complex enharmonic spellings because it's standard practice. For a pianist who doesn't play serial works, maybe not.so you could adjust DC with your right foot, as well as EF with your left, all simultaneously You could in theory adjust one pedal from each side simulataneously but this will risk dropping the harp, which players understandibly don't want. They are pretty quick at pedal changes though.for harmonics, as long as the entire compass is a fifth or less, the left hand can do up to 3 at a time, the right can only ever do one Not quite sure what you're saying here; the harpist needs both the finger/thumb and the soft part of the hand in contact with the strings, so to play three harmonics at once is very difficult indeed, almost impossible, and the notes would have to be on neighbouring strings. Don't write more than one for each hand at a time is the best advice.*Actually, several composers including Vaughan Williams, who should have known better, have tried to write 5-note chords for harp. Quote
maestrowick Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Not bad. However, I would suggest NEVER insinuate to use the pinky. June said "Amateurish"; I'll go further than that and say blasphemy. Don't write for it. PERIOD. Another two cents: I did study harp with one of the most respected harpist in the State. I have some hands on experience playing the instrument (quite calming actually). As far using the pinky, it's not ergonomic at all. Just don't do it. Quote
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