Transposition Help Please

Here's the scoop - I am taking my ABRSM Grade 8 Theory Exam on Saturday and yet I am struggling with transposition. Its the only part the paper I have major issue with and it will come up. Out of a possible 100 marks altogether, this section alone could equal as much as 10 marks.

Don't ask me why but I have never got transposition 100% despite having studied it several times. I get the principle and know why transposition exists but its putting it into practise eludes me. I have been using the exercises on teoria to help but I am not getting anyway. The moment I get one step forward, something seems to throw me two steps back.

For those not familiar with the exam in question, as part of Question 4 and 5 (music score analysis), they take a few sections of the music from transposing instruments and ask for them to be transposed into concert pitch. Maybe I get lucky and only get one question, maybe I get unlucky and get three. Commonly, its Clarinets in B flat and Horns in F appear though Bass Clarinet and E flat Clarinet have shown up too in the past papers I have.

So, with days to go, I am not looking to learn the topic inside out from scratch - its not going to happen and probably would stress me out more. What I am looking for a simple method that I can go into the exam and use to work out whatever is put in front of me.

Thanks guys

Easiest concept I know:

"Play a 'C', sound your key"

i.e.

- Clarinet in Bb, plays a 'C', but the sound is 'Bb'.

- Alto Sax in Eb, plays a 'C', but an 'Eb' comes out....

etc.

I don't have anything more helpful with regards to octaves and such... :(

Transposition, huh. Seems like a weird thing to find the hardest in the exam. The first three questions are very much harder to me.

Are you having trouble with finding out what interval to transpose from the instrument name and instructions or is it in the transposing itself? One thing to remember is that when you transpose a certain interval, the note name must change accordingly. If you transpose C [something] a [something] fifth up, it has to be a G of some sort. For example, C# a diminished fifth up is G natural. This helps because you can simply write the notes a number of "steps" up or down, and they will be in the correct place; all you have to do then is apply the correct accidentals.

I still find this weird though. You should have gotten over this by Grade 5.

I still find this weird though. You should have gotten over this by Grade 5.

Forget Grade 5, I should have gotten over it at University! I am trying to embrace the concept that at least I am confronting the issue instead of curling up in a ball like a hedgehog. To me Q1-Q3 are bliss in comparison to this - each to our own I guess.

I get the gist of the idea - transposing instruments are not in the key of C so the written note is different to the sounding note. When you are transposing into concert pitch, you are pretty much working out what the instrument would be playing if it was for a C instrument. But where my head gets confused is the whole process of taking a Horn in F and putting it into concert pitch. So a written C would become a F - a perfect 5th below.

At Grade 5, which I self taught myself, the method I used was to write out the scales in question

C D E F G A B C

F G A Bflat C D E F

and then transpose it based on this - so if I had an E, it would become an A.

I thought it was fool proof until I got the results back and realised that I got the question wrong. I have also tried it on the Teoria exercises and again met with failure.

Where I go wrong I don't know - believe me, I too think its silly this concept eludes me.

Envisioning the keyboard works for me.

I think yours is also a good trick. Where you may be going wrong is when accidentals come. I'll just use your example, transposing a fifth down from C.

CiiiDiiiEiiiiiiFiiiiiiiGiiiAiiiBiiiC

FiiiGiiiAiiiBflatiiCiiiDiiiEiiiF

Yes, E would become A. If you have E flat in the key of C though, you get A flat. If you have F#, you get B natural, not B#, because you sharpen Bb to get B natural.

Things like those are where I would stumble, at least.

Maybe I'm telling you things you already find obvious haha

The below example, from Mozart's Clarinet Quintet, is a slight adaptation of a passage that's on the teaching part of one of the graded exams, here, as a question on how to explain transposition to students, since 'Transposition from one key to another often poses problems for students'.

It's for a clarinet in A so, first, transpose it into concert pitch; then, transpose it an augmented fourth lower (from concert pitch), outlining each step you take and posting both solutions, so that someone can see where the problem lies and explain it.

Yes, E would become A. If you have E flat in the key of C though, you get A flat. If you have F#, you get B natural, not B#, because you sharpen Bb to get B natural.

Things like those are where I would stumble, at least.

Maybe I'm telling you things you already find obvious haha

I think we may have cracked my problem - I use the word think because its early days.

After I read this post, I got some of the mock papers out and on manuscript paper answered the questions. I have done a couple of Bb Clarinets and a couple of Horn in F.

Instead of my usual method, I wrote out the full chromatic scale that way whatever the paper threw at me, I had a point of reference. So far so good!

Now, just to make sure I have it straight:

Horns in F, Bb Flat Clarinet, Trumpet in Bb - all go down

Eb Flat Clarinet goes up.

Correct?

I cannot think they would ask another instrument besides these (except Bass Bb flat Clarinet which I know I use the same method but then knock it down an octave)

The rule I remember is that you transpose up or down depending on which is the closest from C, except horns which always go down, and another instrument that I can't remember. I think it is saxophones.

The rule I remember is that you transpose up or down depending on which is the closest from C, except horns which always go down, and another instrument that I can't remember. I think it is saxophones.

That's helpful.

I cannot imagine a saxophone coming up. In all the past papers I haven't seen a single saxophone yet alone a saxophone related question.

I have done several more practise papers including bass clarinets and clarinet in A and the only issue I had was that I transposed a bass clarinet in A down two octaves instead of one. Easy mistake to make though at midnight.

Thanks for the help.

Hmmm...the question lies where are you reading from.

If you are reading from the transposed part, you go down.

THE ONLY EXCEPTION is Horn in D and A which is trickier than Boise State Football. They can be written high or low and you have to know when it does that (Beethoven, Mozart, etc) PAIN IN THE NECK.

And Horn in Bb. High or Low.

There's a trick I used when learning this: the same robinjessome said here.

To know if the instrument tranposes up or down, it's a question of logic. Short instruments (piccolo, soprano clarinet, piccolo trumpet, crotales, glocken, celesta) usually will transpose up. Larger instruments (alto flute, bass clarinet, heckelphone...) usually will down. The list here is well written: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposing_instrument