Help On My Favorite Piece Of Music

2:10-3:10 is the best music I've ever heard. some say it's like catchy pop and nothing special. I can see that. but to me it's a lot more; it's the strongest spiritual encounter I've experienced, and I feel quite unfamiliar with the historical and theoretical roots of it and have confidence you can help me out

I would really appreciate some help identifying and analyzing 2:10-3:10 in terms of its influences and structure. many of you probably have more knowledge of where this folk style comes from, and can direct me to a section of theory or music. it reminds me also of Rimsky-Korsakov and I know he helped finish it. what I mainly love about it is the melody and template of harmony used; every beat of it is like a folk fantasy, but with a whimsical spiritual uplift. in melody there is F# C# B A F# decending like jazz or some scale I can't quite put my finger on at the moment because I'm taking it all in like a picture. it overall fits my highest ideal. a lot of my attraction to it is the strings and flute in melody, the expressiveness and how the flute overtakes everything for a moment and feels like time stops for this certain character. a respected charming youth of the woods. it personally makes me think of a rich mystical wood and summoning a wind ballad with the creatures gathering and listening around him, or just me reflecting on this heavenly wood hidden from harsh reality. it's just so majestic. if I ever could pull off writing something like this, there aren't words. I always say that melody is the hardest thing to get right and it takes talent. I would really just like to learn where all this influence came from

I know I can analyze music, but when it's your favorite piece sometimes you can't do it yourself. you want to hear others' opinions and angles on it. I'd like to know what you take from it structurally or emotionally, especially if you think it's something quite simple. thanks

Find the score and start analyzing it.

Is that really the best music you could find ever though? Borodin, really?

Is that really the best music you could find ever though? Borodin, really?

Borodin's sound is very unique and touches the spirit. Though I don't rate the composer, nor generally the piece, but I find something that stands out about any segment. 2:10-3:10 stands out pretty significantly as a supernatural presence that is rather difficult to evoke by, say, the likes of Mahler or Tchaikovsky, whose tones don't commonly bend that originally in the same place, but rather who took an overall different perspective on music which paid off. So I really appreciate a lot of Borodin's approach and respect to music and think this is the nicest evocative segment of music I have heard.

Hi!

You can find the theme "Gliding Dance of the Maidens" in the (b) section on this sheet:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/BorPolDancesThemes.png

The main part of the theme is a simple sequence: F#-D / E-C# / (D)-B.

Since the melody is is mostly pentatonic, D and G# are only used as auxiliary notes, and often replaced by their stronger neighbour as you can see in the 3rd bar (D replaced by F#).

Anyway, the piece is a part of the opera "Prince Igor", and without actors and text it is REALLY boring. I can't say anything about the opera, since I haven't seen it, yet.

Máté

Find the score and start analyzing it.

Is that really the best music you could find ever though? Borodin, really?

Nice attitude bro, really creates a good atmosphere.

I think you should check out the score as well and just dig into it. Personally I think the recording you listed is too slow, I would prefer it in a faster tempo, and also with the choir added, like in this one:

Plenty of tunes like this is Russian romantic literature; listen to Borodin symphonies, Glazunov, Balakirev, Rimsky, etc. Almost all of it uses or is trying to sound like a folk melody. Borodin usually had quite a lot of help from Rimsky and others as he was busy playing with his chemistry set instead of finishing things...

Thanks for the help. To clarify, I don't call the piece the best, only that it's my favorite in general. Sometimes I have different expectations for music and it does not fullfil them, depending on what my mood is. Music is subjective and anyone can explain "why" a piece of music is their favorite.

However I think those who fail to see what shines about such a piece, struggle, like many composers, to understand the raw talent and ear it takes to construct a flowing melody, thus become dedicated instead to a tendency to praise originality as it fits with what we like to see in ourselves, as though we're eager to hear and construct what stands apart from the mediocre, that we can no longer tell if it stands on the same ground or not, as something musically comparable. Not enough composers are dedicated to achieving something difficult to evoke, for when we write a melody, we don't have the intuition to fulfill it. It becomes scattered ideas and potential. Some composers are good enough that they have never struggled with this musical purpose.

Personally I think the recording you listed is too slow, I would prefer it in a faster tempo, and also with the choir added, like in this one:

In my opinion: the video I posted has a respectable speed for 2:10-3:10, and features the most beautiful melodic lead and dynamics. Choir for this part sounds much too harsh and excessive. I haven't understood why people like the original choir better, due to the music evoking something different to them. I appreciate a chorus sound for other purposes.

That wasn't aimed toward anyone I was thanking. Though I'm sincere in thanking people even for just a small contribution. The mention of the pentatonic scale was particularly helpful, and reading more about techniques for a new Russian nationalistic sound. But I think the piece stands above its peers' due to the quality of melody with harmony; it's something I want to highlight because it seems to get overlooked by actual composers.

I think the definition of such a piece is "simple only after the fact." You can make something complex and interesting fairly easily. What's difficult is making something both simple and interesting. It becomes not so simple, in my experience.

yea h8ers u dunno the flowing melodie it touches the heart that i can feel it my soul you dont kno the talent

You're free to leave if you don't want to discuss anything musical or make a simple contribution to the topic. I think mistaking expression of feelings for lack of knowledge is not something wise to do while discussing music, since oftentimes we chose to focus on one or the other, and hopefully the better music will 9/10 captivate the heart over the mind. Anyone can know and understand music if they just listen without any bias, as a musician will more intuitively understand the whole before they put a label on the individual parts, since it is the whole that reveals its level of interest, while the parts only reveal their nature and are useless without form.

-Then why are you asking us for help in making sense of the aforementioned work?

-Yeah because everyone thinks the same exact way you do and hold the same ideals. Always.

-Because all musicians are exactly the same. Always.

I think you're contradicting me. I ask because each musician is different and has their own opinions and perspectives, and I'd like to hear them. I share not so someone will be pleased and look up to me because they hear what they want to hear and feel secure about their talent, but that someone open-minded will share their opinion or give a different perspective and try to have an actual conversation. I'm sorry that you find it offensive, but much of getting to the core of music and life, for a lot of big thinkers, is fleshing out principles and observations we can relate to. If you want to add your own, feel free.

Simply put: don't be arrogant with that kind of pseudo-enlightened attitude: especially when you originally created the discussion to ask for help (basic help, at that). You will find that musician don't usually put up with that kind of nonsense because we work far too hard to be told 'how things are'.

Call it arrogance and nonsense if you want. It could easily be, but like I say, I wouldn't know until someone actually inspires my thinking, and you can't do that by promoting a lack of thinking. I respect musicians, which is why I'm giving my perspective and inviting you to give yours.

Simply put: don't be arrogant with that kind of pseudo-enlightened attitude: especially when you originally created the discussion to ask for help (basic help, at that). You will find that musician don't usually put up with that kind of nonsense because we work far too hard to be told 'how things are'.

It's more just that you're right and we should all bow to you.

It's sad that Ryan's amazing talent to, as phil so correctly puts it, talk in an "arrogant, pseudo-enlightened" way, almost justifies how belittling some of the responses were in the beginning.

^ ^ You heard it from a member on the considerate side for the feelings of internet strangers, Ryan. I would agree.

However I think those who fail to see what shines about such a piece, struggle, like many composers, to understand the raw talent and ear it takes to construct a flowing melody

This is the sort of thing that irks me. This does not give out the impression that you're humbly giving a personal opinion at all. No, those who find your favorite piece of music ever an odd choice (It is by the way. You should expect as much if you are going to say something as grand as "it's the strongest spiritual encounter I've experienced," or "Borodin's sound is very unique and touches the spirit," or "stands out pretty significantly as a supernatural presence." Seriously listen to yourself.) are failing. We don't understand. You need so much raw talent and ear, as a fact, to construct a flowing melody. What makes it worse is that, judging from your posts, you're relatively new, or ignorant, with musical matters, not in any position to lecture others on "flowing" melodies.

So yeah, don't be surprised if people take offense. Especially on the internet. You may think you are being humble, but you're not.

^ ^ You heard it from a member on the considerate side for the feelings of internet strangers, Ryan. I would agree.

He said responses.

This is the sort of thing that irks me. This does not give out the impression that you're humbly giving a personal opinion at all. No, those who find your favorite piece of music ever an odd choice (It is by the way. You should expect as much if you are going to say something as grand as "it's the strongest spiritual encounter I've experienced," or "Borodin's sound is very unique and touches the spirit," or "stands out pretty significantly as a supernatural presence." Seriously listen to yourself.) are failing. We don't understand. You need so much raw talent and ear, as a fact, to construct a flowing melody. What makes it worse is that, judging from your posts, you're relatively new, or ignorant, with musical matters, not in any position to lecture others on "flowing" melodies.

So yeah, don't be surprised if people take offense. Especially on the internet. You may think you are being humble, but you're not.

You play the aggressor but have no stance of your own. Feel free to defend your point at any time (preferably with your own experience, not just mimicking what others say.)

The funny thing about humility is it's not something you can bestow. What's also funny is this topic is going nowhere. Deep down you want to make a point but you can't bring yourself to do so, like a lot of conversation, so you resort to arguing and insulting for your own personal pleasure. I've seen it a million times.

I've learned that individuals who respond like this are generally insecure about something, and I can usually find out what that is. I don't have a problem with insecurity, just the need to pick on individuals you perceive as weak. That is unfair. Be fair to people and you'll earn the real kind of respect that doesn't come from others, and you won't have to make up for it by putting people down for no reason.

Or you could continue acting like an arrogant dick. That's totally cool, right.

You'll stop being a fourteen one day.

He said responses.

You play the aggressor but have no stance of your own. Feel free to defend your point at any time (preferably with your own experience, not just mimicking what others say.)

The funny thing about humility is it's not something you can bestow. What's also funny is this topic is going nowhere. Deep down you want to make a point but you can't bring yourself to do so, like a lot of conversation, so you resort to arguing and insulting for your own personal pleasure. I've seen it a million times.

I've learned that individuals who respond like this are generally insecure about something, and I can usually find out what that is. I don't have a problem with insecurity, just the need to pick on individuals you perceive as weak. That is unfair. Be fair to people and you'll earn the real kind of respect that doesn't come from others, and you won't have to make up for it by putting people down for no reason.

I'm seriously baffled. After 2 pages of slandering, someone still finds the patience to tell you in a polite, simple way why you're coming off as extremely arrogant, and this is your response. I really hope you're either 14 years old or just a troll, because if you act like this in real life, you must be the most annoying person on the planet. Do you even read what people post, or do you automatically open up your thesaurus and start rambling about how fantastic you are and how everyone who disagrees with you is a frightened little kid who doesn't have the courage to share his opinion.

Good effort Ian, you can't win 'em all.

Do you even read what people post

Maybe everyone posting should read too. I'll repeat: it's not that you're wrong, it's that you're quite off topic, have no substantial contribution, and are purposefully desconstructing this topic for your own satisfaction (because you loathe my musical opinion? this isn't the place to share your personal problems.) I don't play elitist and am not going to entertain your' sense of belonging, so please, show respect for each individual in my thread or I'll invite you to leave.

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This is supposed to be a place where people can share their thoughts and ideas and not be persecuted. Pretty much anything musically related: it would be nice if you could contrast some of your favorite music and explain why you like it so much, or explain why you dislike my pick.

I personally feel that there is a disconnect in explaining what I think of my favorite music and with how it actually sounds (and why I'm satisfied) as a whole. The stable harmony is there, the folk melody is there, it is slow paced and simple at least in appearance, we have labels for it so we assume it's nothing special. Yet I think the problem is we're not seeing the creative process that goes into giving birth to something catchy and rather thematically complete, rather as composers we often see the final product, as something rudimentary after the fact. We can spell all the chords and notes, but we don't let the music fill us completely. In that I think there are a lot of ideas that would be considered "spectacular" on paper by a lot of composers, but when we hear them, the sound is random and lacks tone, ie. similar to reverse mirroring harmonies. Sometimes there is much theory, out-of-the-box thinking and attempting to "wow", that a number of us might forget what is really sublime and soulful, no matter if it's this piece or an old favorite, we progress so much that we can no longer appreciate old tastes. The emotion we had for something that others perhaps lacked, gets drained from us as the impetus for desiring to comprehend it. This could be the reason I don't want to particularly "own" the music and I'm asking for an outside opinion, because in an emotional way it already flows through me. I'm sure anyone could relate that to their favorite music at some point in time.

Now I do think melodies in one form or another are really the backbone of a piece of music. I often see it as the original note in dynamical dominance as the others follow by its side in any unique number of fashions. It does not matter if it's a completed melody or a series of motifs, they really add a sense of direction and vision to music. The better they are the more they're going to stick in the back of my mind. I'm not saying melody is the truth to music or what people aught to accept (even if melody is technically the first note we compose and can simply be masked.) Rather as a composer I love to think for myself and designate how I approach an overall adoration to music. I've observed a lot of people fail to grasp melodies and their importance, both individually and generally, yet I love to hear these peoples' opinions and learn from their unique perspective anyway.

Kids, stick to musical discussion or the thread gets locked.