Best Composers By Composition Type

One day when you grow out of your "everything dark and brooding is totally awesome" phase, you will realize how great Mozart's major-key works are as well. Just because they have a sunnier disposition does not mean they are lesser works (although, admittedly, his minor-key works/movements are very, very, very good). Choosing between the later concertos (which, along with opera, was the category I would say he most consistently wrote masterpieces) is difficult, but 20, 21, 24, and 25 seem to me to be a bit above the rest. Only #26 is somewhat of a let-down.

27 > 24 > 25 > 15 > 17 > 23 > a bunch of others >>>> 26

anyone who disagrees clearly has only a superficial understanding of mozart and probably likes Eine Kleine Nachtmusik to boot

anyone who disagrees clearly has only a superficial understanding of mozart and probably likes Eine Kleine Nachtmusik to boot

:huh: ?

27 > 24 > 25 > 15 > 17 > 23 > a bunch of others >>>> 26

anyone who disagrees clearly has only a superficial understanding of mozart and probably likes Eine Kleine Nachtmusik to boot

#26 was perhaps something like a first-draft that he didn't return to or an attempt to do something a little different. We know that some of the actual piano part was very sparse and the "completion" was done by someone else later (and that completion is wretched), but as I recall, it's some structural aspects that make it seem weaker than the works surrounding it. Still, I would call it more of a small letdown compared to the high standards of his other concertos rather than a failure. I mean, Mozart's only real competitor was Haydn and I wouldn't pick one of his piano concertos over #26.

Eine Kleine Nachtmusik is overplayed and cliched, but that's not Mozart's fault. It's light music, but I would not call it poorly written.

Analyse this passage and then tell me that this is not a great concerto.

It's not a great concerto.

That is a scraggy concerto.

But I bet none of the above (nor myself) can do any better ;) .

I imagine since you know you can't, and you just know you're deep down the best composer here, nobody else can either.

I imagine since you know you can't, and you just know you're deep down the best composer here, nobody else can either.

I don't think he is - but to be fair, he's never claimed he is. At least he doesn't write random nonsense with some pseudo-scientific explanation, or much less belongs to the "Oh-I-am-so-cool-and-modern-because-I-despise-Haydn-and-Mozart" crowd. I'm no big fan of Mozart myself, but I've so far heard almost nothing over here that can compete even with any average Mozart piece.

the "Oh-I-am-so-cool-and-modern-because-I-despise-Haydn-and-Mozart" crowd.

Wow, there is a group I can join where I gain social acceptance through hating Haydn and Mozart? Where do I sign up?

I don't think he is - but to be fair, he's never claimed he is.

He's definitely far from the best composer on this site and yet: he thinks very highly of his own music. He can't seem to make up his mind whether or not his music is "horrible" (which of course, he just says in a show of blatant pseudo-modesty to bait for compliments), yet he struts his oh-so-prestigious YC Awards winnings on his signature. I wouldn't be surprised if they're framed on his living room wall as well.

but I've so far heard almost nothing over here that can compete even with any average Mozart piece.

Well, the only people on here imitating Mozart are 15 year old kids who haven't studied music/

but I've so far heard almost nothing over here that can compete even with any average Mozart piece.

http://www.youngcomposers.com/music/3467/string-quartet-in-the-style-of-mozart/

http://www.youngcomp...tyle-of-mozart/

His point still stands.

He's definitely far from the best composer on this site and yet: he thinks very highly of his own music.

If I didn't enjoy what I'm doing, I wouldn't bother doing it at all. That doesn't put me above or below any other YC member. (In fact, if I thought so highly of myself, I wouldn't "waste" my time mingling into a site such as YC asking for help and offering it whenever possible).

He can't seem to make up his mind whether or not his music is "horrible" (which of course, he just says in a show of blatant pseudo-modesty to bait for compliments), yet he struts his oh-so-prestigious YC Awards winnings on his signature. I wouldn't be surprised if they're framed on his living room wall as well.

You also can't seem to make up your mind, since you call me "far from the best composer on this site" but when I said essentially the same thing you call it "a show of blatant pseudo-modesty to bait for compliments". It's fine if you just dislike my works on whatever grounds, but you can't have it both ways.

It's up to the listeners to judge on whether they like, dislike or plainly ignore my works, as with any other composers' (heck, I seem to recall we were discussing a piece by Mozart). But I don't see anything wrong on a composer wanting his music to be heard and respected, especially by people he expects to learn from.

You also can't seem to make up your mind, since you call me "far from the best composer on this site" but when I said essentially the same thing you call it "a show of blatant pseudo-modesty to bait for compliments". It's fine if you just dislike my works on whatever grounds, but you can't have it both ways.

I never said you were the worst composer on this site. If you write a satisfactory work and say it is a poor one, that would be modest of you (though we all know how you really feel about your own music). No contradiction exists in my statement, though I see you've come to terms with your own and your intentions: good on ya!.

Now let's get back to Mozart, shall we?

His point still stands.

devastating burn.

My point on Mozart's piece is that for some people it's fashionable to deride anything Mozart, if only to pat themselves on the back and say "wow, we're so much into cool things and know better than all those Mozart-worshipping plebs" - but without any achievements to give them any authority. I was just pointing out that none of us have even come close to outachieving Mozart.

You know, there are still some of us who are old-fashionedly modest. A "facade of modesty" might be too modern for my taste...

Love to see how "Best-composers..." kind of questions always derail in something like this.

Taste is a subjective matter, which attracts fundamentalist beleivers in their idol to claim their favourite is absolutely the best (whether it be Papa-Haydn, Mozart or Mahler (who I all hate)), and it also attracts trolls (and law appearantly) to make fun of that (and rightly so).

And then we have poor robert, caught in between.

My solution is: never ask these kind of "best composer" questions again, never ever.

Telling us it isn't a great concerto without providing any reasons why it isn't doesn't count as criticism.

I imagine since you know you can't, and you just know you're deep down the best composer here, nobody else can either.

No, it's a lot more straightforward than that. It comes from listening to the music of the composers who criticized it and extrapolating that someone who makes the Titanic sound like it was sunk by the USS Reliant commanded by Khan and someone who writes music that sounds like farm animals dying of constipation and bloating (you) couldn't possibly write something as good as Mozart's 26th piano concerto.

I don't think anyone really doubts that Mozart, at his best, was a brilliant composer. It just really annoys me when people worship him as some sort of God and act like he was incapable of writing bad music. I can guarantee that you could take a piece by some absolute no-mark composer from the same period and say it was written by Mozart and some of these people would instantly proclaim it to be a work of genius.

You could probably do the same in reverse and claim a Mozart piece was written by, let's say, Fernando Sor. I bet some people would then automatically judge it as an inferior piece, regardless of the actual musical content.

And anyway, as Jaap has already said, it's all subjective anyway so what's the point in even arguing about it?

I can guarantee that you could take a piece by some absolute no-mark composer from the same period and say it was written by Mozart and some of these people would instantly proclaim it to be a work of genius.

Reminded me of a prank played by Paderewski on his musician friends...

Oh, and now that you mention Fernando Sor - I liked better his variations on themes from The Magic Flute than the original themes themselves :evil:

Reminded me of a prank played by Paderewski on his musician friends...

Oh, and now that you mention Fernando Sor - I liked better his variations on themes from The Magic Flute than the original themes themselves :evil:

It also reminds me a bit of the FAE sonata. Each movement was written by a different composer: Schumann, Brahms and Dietrich with the finale by Schumann again. The dedicatee of the piece had to guess who composed each movement. Apparently, he got them all right but I wonder whether his opinions of the piece would've changed if he were to be told the wrong composer for each movement.

I agree about the theme and variations, it's a great piece, probably his best. I think his guitar sonatas are pretty poor though but to be fair to him it's hard to modulate effectively on the guitar so maybe he was limited by that, though Giuliani seemed to pull it off a lot more successfully than him in my opinion. Some of Sor's smaller, lesser known works for fortepiano are pretty good though or at least charming if nothing else.

My solution is: never ask these kind of "best composer" questions again, never ever.

Or we could try having mature discussions that don't digress to personal stabs at each other's composition styles.

From what I can see, a large percent of the public admires Mozart's music because it's all they really know, and they like what they've heard. However, I would trust that most people on this website have been exposed to multiple other composers and styles, and thus, they have the right to take an informed position on what is better. If someone has listened to both classical and modern music and decides, "wow, classical music is waaayyyy better", then by all means they are entitled to that opinion.

Regarding Mozart, I definitely think he was capable of writing bad music. I pretty much despise all of his symphonies up until the 20s, but have any of you ever heard his 39th, 40th, and 41st symphonies? I think it's pretty hard to deny that they're true masterpieces.

I would also have to agree with Austenite that no one on this site has yet written something that can counter the perfection of one of Mozart's masterpieces. Of course, there are many who would denounce the criteria I would use to determine what a "masterpiece" really is, but I suppose I've already written too much.

Well if a composer writes formidable Mozart style-copies, they would be too famous and rich to spend time on YC.....right?

Right?

I'd rather have a composer of some proven success coming into this site and providing actual advice and knowledge to his younger peers, than the usual pointless jerks who contribute nothing and in fact attempt to drive valuable people away. The whole point of a Young Composers site is to be a place to exchange knowledge and learn from more experienced members, not to be just another dumping field for frustrated trolls.