Fugue - Good And Bad Subjects

Hi. What makes a subject good and usable in multiple contexts throughout the development of the fugue? How to write a good one? How to figure out right at the beginning that your subject is a bad one and not fill the whole page with music just to realise that your subject is bad and all that work was for nothing (it happened to me. maybe because i critic myself too harshly, or maybe it wasn't good). Bach often makes the first beat a pause and the subject contains a 'signature' figure/motif so to speak. Is this obligatory? Recomended? What really takes to write a good subject that sounds good in different keys modes and various contrapuntal techniqes?

You should use a tone row for your subject, those are always good.

You should use a tone row for your subject, those are always good.

I did that once, and someone then gave me the correct critique that I that way mostly explore the horizontal relations of the row, and not the vertical relations.

The pickup-measures you notice with Bach-fugues are indeed a good custom, because it makes the listener more aware of each next entry. It is not obligatory though.

About the theme. In bachs days it sort of mattered more, because of the transposition of each entry it really matters where you end, and in what key you're in, and how much material you need to transpose back to the home key. But writing in later idiom, say Schostakovich or Hindemith, it is seems less important. Their fugues demonstrate that you can turn about anything into a fugue, to great effect. It only takes a well developed sense for counterpoint. Maybe the counter-subject is in this regard of more importance, because that sets the standard for the way the subject and countersubject interact with eachother.

My recomendation is to study many fugues from different eras. And develop your feeling for counterpoint. And you'll notice when a (counter-)subject will work successful or not.

Schenker wondered the same question. He published a classification of fugue subjects (two or three main archetypes or paradigms, according to the underlying harmony of the theme, as far as I remember, which branch out in a limited number of possible sub-archetypes).

I do not know how outdated this classification is, however. I think he focused in Bach, mostly. Google up for "schenkerian analysis of fugue subjects" or similar keywords; some more up to date bibliography should come up, expanding upon Schenker core classification.

@Locrian

if i may ask, what is a tone row? is it somehow related to dodecaphony?

@jrcramer

yes, bach's themes are pretty recignizable when played correctly. although i listened to shostakovich a little, i fancy bach more because it fascinates me how he combines all parts to sound harmonious and in-tonality. even better are his chromatic passages, after which you expect a consonant harmony, unlike modern (20th c.) composers, who avoid consonance and tonality.

@sarastro

i will most definitely do that

@jrcramer

yes, bach's themes are pretty recignizable when played correctly. although i listened to shostakovich a little, i fancy bach more because it fascinates me how he combines all parts to sound harmonious and in-tonality. even better are his chromatic passages, after which you expect a consonant harmony, unlike modern (20th c.) composers, who avoid consonance and tonality.

le sigh... 20th c composers do not avoid consonance, they toy with it, and the way it 'resolves' is just something you need to get used to. I must say the baroque chromatism is sometimes effective, but quite often just a cliche effect. But if you like chromatism so much, just learn from history. romantism, loose tonality, a-tonality. and new forms of tonality: bi-/poly-, quartal/quintal, octatonic, hexachordan, wholetone, modi, etc... these provide new interesting contexts in which the fugal texture can be explored.

A very good way to learn how to use and build subjects is to look at the mid baroque ( that is who Bach learn form anyway :)

There is a very nice trick in counterpoint that regards the subject, like if your subject is A F E E ->>> D, the next entry will be D C B B - © or C#.

The point is that you fifth becomes a fourth when the next voice enters, and you first harmony would be the dominant, and not tonic.

This gives you are varied harmony and many subjects in the baroque starts like that.

I will try to write an example for you here, common time ( quarter notes)

Key D minor: (slow tempo)

Soprano A F E E | F A A G# | A A A A | D C B B | C#D DC#| D

Alto| | | | | | | | | D C B B | C#D D C#| D E E E | E D E E | F(#) And here is the place for the episode

Basso || | | | | | | | | | | | | | A F E E | F A A G# | A b G A | D

This is the most basic construction of a fugue and the use of the subject and countersubject. Look that all voices play the subject and the counter subject.

To learn more about fugue subjects, you should check out Frescobaldi, Buxtehude, Böhm, Franz Tunder.

If a fugue subject is a good bass line, it can be a good subject.

Disregarding all that was said, with the exception of what Justin said, a good fugue subject is one that -I believe- can be utilized in every timbre and register within the ensemble written for. For example, if your subject is idiomatic of one particular instrumental range or the instrument itself - then it will be difficult to have the subject be utilized in other instruments (violin to trumpet, as an example). Thus, what Justin said is a good litmus test. If your subject works in the soprano, alto, tenor, or bass then it should be sufficient.

I use lots of fugalistic textures in my work - despite being a modern styled composer. What I tend to look for in subjects, outside of usage in other ranges and instruments, is the overall musical possibilities of the subject itself. Most of my subjects are comprised of two - four motivic units tied together into a periodic structure. This enables me to break apart the motives during the fugal episodes - and enables me to also develop the motivic units to some, limited degree.

Other than that really, there is no real technique that can insure your subjects will be good or bad formula-wise. Bach's techniques are pretty good to study - hence why they are studied in Conservatory (rightly). I also recommend studying other composers from later periods as well: Beethoven and Mozart especially. It might also be good to look at Canonic writing as well - to give you an idea of basic subject composition.

Hope this helps, I'm surprised to see that Justin knocked it into the ball park :D

There is a very nice trick in counterpoint that regards the subject, like if your subject is A F E E ->>> D, the next entry will be D C B B - © or C#.

hm, yeah. But this kind of 2nd entry I have always found rather weak. Is if the composer didn't took the efford to try what happened when he literally transposed his subject a 5th (D Bb AA). There harmonic consideration do harm to the melodic integrity of the subject.

I consider this the lazy shortcut, which is allowed, and /can/ result is something really pretty. But try the literal one first, to exercise the melodic aspect of counterpoint first. This way one learns that how the fugue is related to the canon.

Well is not lazy, because you treat the first tone in d minor entry A is treated as the dominant, and when the D comes in second entry its the septim.

If it where A A F E the harmony in second entry will be D D C B - Harmony on second entry dm E/7 a minor E major. So its actually no shortcut. I consider the transposition a shortcut. to have A F E E ( or A A F E) and then E C B B (or E E C B ) way too easy, for the first you harmony will then become very static (regard that you have a set countersubject). What im saying is a common way to do it in baroque fugues that starts with the fifth and goes to the third.

I would hardly say that the composers who did this all the time are lazy. As i just had a course in Bach style counterpoint at the conservatory, the lecture focused just this type of entrys form the WTC.

And to treat the first harmony as a dominant and and then the first tone as a septim is much more advanced harmonically then just tcopy entry. That is the thing with counterpoint, the little changes you that is not so easy to hear. I would recomend that you take a look at : http://javanese.imsl..._No.4_Dover.pdf The presto movement!

There is the same thing just reversed ; Theme ; D G --- next entry G D. (a fourth becomes a fifth in second entry), in my example the fifth became a fourth.

http://javanese.imsl...e_BuxWV_174.pdf

Look at the last notes of the 8 notes figure , bar 1 G to E ( fifth to third) second last notes of the 8 notes figure in second entry C- B (fourth to third).

Here the harmony is only treated as the subdominant, and not the dominant with the septim.

http://petrucci.mus....hude-Fugues.pdf ( G major fugue)

Another example where to fifth goes one intervall up to the subdominants third, D - E

en second entry G - H

Bb major fugue same thing

There are tons of examples like this, its only the beginners who transpose. but again, this is refered to a subject with Fifth to third. or fourth to prim.

SimenN, I'm so glad there's someone like you that also know about these rules on subject-to-answer mutations, mainly caused due to dominant notes!!!! I've studied it with André Gedalge's book "Traité de la Fugue" (quite old, but useful), and even my teacher's at the university didn't know it!!!!

Well, answering the main question, here are some tips on writing good subjects, in a "baroque" way of composing, mainly took from Gedalge's book:

- The subject must not have a very large number of rythms: only 2 or 3;

- It must not altern between binary and ternary rythms;

- It must work well as a bass line (as said by Tokkemon);

- The subject melody must be able to undergo canonic entries with the answer and itself.

- It sould not be too long (as the imitative process will be lost) not too short (as the tonal sense will be weakend);

- The subject must belong entirely to one sigle mode: minor or major;

- The first part of the subject (the head of the subject) MUST have a very strong character in rythm, melody or expression (so it will be recognized in each new entry);

- This strong character (melody, rythm or expression) must not be repeated in the middle or the end of the subject;

These are tips on "baroque" fugues, by André Gedalge. Of course many of these "rules" are not followed any more (I don't follow many of them). Now, it depends on the style you want your fugue to be: as a beginner baroque fugue, try to follow some of these tips; but if you want to compose a more "modern" one, you can break some of them, although some are REALLY useful even in contemporary fugues. I highlight these two tips (which I try to follow quite often):

- The first part of the subject (the head of the subject) MUST have a very strong character in rythm, melody or expression (so it will be recognized in each new entry);

- It must work well as a bass line (as said by Tokkemon);

Surprisingly you'll find many baroque fugues which violate many of these rules. Check Bach's BWV 899 Fughetta in Dm: the subject is simply "D - E - F - E - D".

As for me, some other good points must be considered regarding fugue subject, such as:

- Do you like your subject? Believe me, it's not that uncomonn to find people composing on themes which they don't like...

- Does it have a good motivic material? Remember that you'll use it later to develop your fugue.

- It's nice when you have a "unique feature" in your fugue! Of course it won't be really inedit and unique, but it will be easily remembered, like a surprise/insistent triplet, or a trill, or even a weird interval! Try to make it interesting/intriguing to the listener ^^

Well, I believe I've done my contributions. I hope it can be useful^^

So I'm confused, is the OP wanting to know the techniques that only apply to Baroque style fugues? Or is the OP wanting to know the techniques that apply to more modern fugal styles?

Also, where the Baroque fugue is concerned, Simen offers somewhat of a description but it's very watered down and basic - he doesn't even cover the various types of subject statements (which are derived from the exact re-entry and melodic/harmonic contour of the subject itself).

Hey Jason!

If you look at the question here its basic, dont give the mouth more then it can chew. As for what i said might be to advanced for a beginner. The question it self gives the it away; what makes a good fugue theme, for one who can write fugues, its possible to write fugues on almost everything. So its not what is a good fugue theme, rather what is a good fugue build, what do i use.

The formula of the fugue is no magic, its how you work you way around with the basics that make a composer, and im sure you dont refer to frescobaldi or buxtehude as composers who are beginners because they use the basics.

Bach fugues is never a good example for the fugue, because bach was the one who did hes own formula.

Simen offers somewhat of a description but it's very watered down and basic - he doesn't even cover the various types of subject statements (which are derived from the exact re-entry and melodic/harmonic contour of the subject itself).

In his defense it is a fairly robust topic which can hardly be adequately covered in a single forum post.

Geez, I wasn't bashing SimenN at all, lol! I actually like the guy and have defended him on countless occassions before. I was just asking cause I was confused, nothing more.. lol