Discouraging budding composers

let's kick a dead horse!

*drags a dead horse*

*kicks it*

Let's decapitate birds! ::WHACK:: ...quack...

*turns into a unicorn*

Kill me and you get a million years in hell plus 1 day watching the view.

Let's decapitate birds! ::WHACK:: ...quack...

Rofl.

Talk about unexpected.

:unsure:

Rofl.

Talk about unexpected.

:unsure:

read my post about the book you should read :) man, I love making people realize their worldview isn't fully fleshed out yet. :huh:

read my post about the book you should read :huh: man, I love making people realize their worldview isn't fully fleshed out yet. :unsure:

Too bad you haven't gotten there yet, and very likely never will. :)

Too bad you haven't gotten there yet, and very likely never will. :huh:

Gotten where? If you haven't realized your worldview isn't fully fleshed out yet then you're just being the ...young person... (somehow I thought you are 19 am I right?) that you are :unsure: read the book man it'll expand your world and you'll be better able to crush people neath objectivist rhetoric...which is something I like doing also. tryin to help you man!!! =D

Gotten where? If you haven't realized your worldview isn't fully fleshed out yet then you're just being the 19 year old that you are :unsure: read the book man it'll expand your world and you'll be better able to crush people neath objectivist rhetoric...which is something I like doing also. tryin to help you man!!! =D

I don't believe you're fit to tell me my views aren't fully developed. If I hadn't told you how old I was, it's my belief most of you would consider me much older. I've experianced that on several other forums. Whether or not the book can expand my beliefs is not something you can predict. You're trying to help me is nothing more than a holier-than-thou attitude. I think my views are quite complete. Reading your book isn't a requirement to having complete views, nor is it a guarantee of ever having complete views. I'm quite content with the ideas I have formulated.

All childish invective inside, I think I've succeeded in making a lot of people think about this important topic (245+ posts!!).

Either that or you've made a few people shout at each other until they're blue in the face.

Man that's a long thread! 9 posts were added while I was reading it. Anyway, after spending the hours necessary to read this very interesting conversation, I'm very reluctant to leave without contributing. I'm 16 and literally just starting to compose, so I think I fit the category that Derek was trying to describe. Right now everything I try to start sucks so bad even I hate it, so I'm certainly not going to waste your time on it. However, when I do eventually post something up here, I would probably want criticism. As long as it's intelligible and not just something like "This sh*t sucks!", I can probably use it in some way. Actually, the examples of Bitterduck's critiques that were quoted seem like exactly what I would want (except near the end where the composer being critiqued seemed to start acting like an donkey). I definitely agree with the "be honest, but don't be an arrogant dick" idea. Also, on the topic of academic training, I think it depends on your personality. I'm taking music theory this coming school year, and I expect it to help immensely because my mind finds it easier to make sense of things, at least initially, when there are clear rules and formulae to follow, rather than just trying stuff to see what works. My current knowledge of theory encompasses little snippets of information that my band conductor (he's also the theory teacher) happened to mention during band, and my attempts so far reflect my lack of coherent knowledge. That's just the way I am. Whoever it was that said that their theory training didn't help much probably thinks differently than I do.

I don't believe you're fit to tell me my views aren't fully developed. If I hadn't told you how old I was, it's my belief most of you would consider me much older. I've experianced that on several other forums. Whether or not the book can expand my beliefs is not something you can predict. You're trying to help me is nothing more than a holier-than-thou attitude. I think my views are quite complete. Reading your book isn't a requirement to having complete views, nor is it a guarantee of ever having complete views. I'm quite content with the ideas I have formulated.

Just making a suggestion, man. I'm sure you'd find the book interesting :laugh: And no, I never really got the feeling you were much older than 19...so if you are, I apologize :wub:

Man that's a long thread! 9 posts were added while I was reading it. Anyway, after spending the hours necessary to read this very interesting conversation, I'm very reluctant to leave without contributing. I'm 16 and literally just starting to compose, so I think I fit the category that Derek was trying to describe. Right now everything I try to start sucks so bad even I hate it, so I'm certainly not going to waste your time on it. However, when I do eventually post something up here, I would probably want criticism. As long as it's intelligible and not just something like "This sh*t sucks!", I can probably use it in some way. Actually, the examples of Bitterduck's critiques that were quoted seem like exactly what I would want (except near the end where the composer being critiqued seemed to start acting like an donkey). I definitely agree with the "be honest, but don't be an arrogant dick" idea. Also, on the topic of academic training, I think it depends on your personality. I'm taking music theory this coming school year, and I expect it to help immensely because my mind finds it easier to make sense of things, at least initially, when there are clear rules and formulae to follow, rather than just trying stuff to see what works. My current knowledge of theory encompasses little snippets of information that my band conductor (he's also the theory teacher) happened to mention during band, and my attempts so far reflect my lack of coherent knowledge. That's just the way I am. Whoever it was that said that their theory training didn't help much probably thinks differently than I do.

Whatever works for you, man. When I was your age I was much less sensible and far, far more sensitive than you are portraying yourself, and also I was the sort that liked to do things entirely intuitively with little or no externally imposed discipline or rules. Also I was naive about how people could be, so when I met some exceedingly arrogant people I allowed their opinions to rule me entirely and I ended up hating....programming. I was passionate about programming back then like I am now about music. It really made me hate it. Thank goodness that didn't happen in music. Anyway...I know there are people like me out there because I often reach out to teenagers about music and help them on their way to becoming more creative improvisers (that's my area of expertise), and they often suffer from the same affliction I did when I was 16. This thread is for all those who have suffered from what I have suffered, or who have the potential to suffer in that way and could potentially avoid it if they read my words and perhaps message me about music. I would never discourage a young kid who wanted to compose or improvise....never. there is absolutely no reason why more sensitive people should be any less worthy of being composers than those who are wiser at earlier ages. no reason. this thread is for those people, because I was one of them. to hell with anyone who thinks otherwise.

Either that or you've made a few people shout at each other until they're blue in the face.

Better that people shout at each other and think about this issue than ignore the fact that some peoples' creative spirits HAVe been crushed by arrogant invective.

how many suffer from what you do derek on this thread? Seriously, look at the people who post here.

I'm going to start a thread in the FFA, feel free to join!

This is one hell of a pissing contest!!!!!!

*pisses for a mile*

beat that.

I ended up hating....programming.

Well there's the difference right there. I love programming. I seem to be intuitively good at it. It's one of the things (along with physics and math) that it never occurred to me that it could be hard. Certainly a specific problem can be challenging, but learning the concepts was never a problem. I guess it's just the personality thing again. :laugh:

Derek, I know you have a weak personality. However, perhap it worked out for the best. You losing programming perhaps made you love music even more! You believe in God, right? Don't you think it happened for a reason? Didn't god put a jerk in your life so you can focus on music instead of programming?

Besides, if you truly loved programming, would you really like a jerk stop you? If you truly did, then you are just a waste of space.

I think this stems from derek not being able to take reviews himself.

Derek:I've never understood, however, how criticism can ever be helpful. LIke.....whenever someone tells ME that something is out of place, I'm usually just like, gently caress you *I* like having that in there

Get over it. Merely defend your work, don't go into heat.

Well there's the difference right there. I love programming. I seem to be intuitively good at it. It's one of the things (along with physics and math) that it never occurred to me that it could be hard. Certainly a specific problem can be challenging, but learning the concepts was never a problem. I guess it's just the personality thing again. :laugh:

Derek, I know you have a weak personality. However, perhap it worked out for the best. You losing programming perhaps made you love music even more! You believe in God, right? Don't you think it happened for a reason? Didn't god put a jerk in your life so you can focus on music instead of programming?

Besides, if you truly loved programming, would you really like a jerk stop you? If you truly did, then you are just a waste of space.

I love programming again. I have worked through the pain I was put through due to my own flaws and the unkindness of arrogant bastards back then. I am just hoping perhaps one, maybe more people will read my thread and see that I am someone who as suffered as they did and will reach out to me because I will help them. I know that that sort of individual is probably as rare as I am but I don't care; might as well try to reach out to them if they are out there. if not then oh well, I guess I'm just a weirdo.

I think this stems from derek not being able to take reviews himself.

Derek:I've never understood, however, how criticism can ever be helpful. LIke.....whenever someone tells ME that something is out of place, I'm usually just like, gently caress you *I* like having that in there

Get over it. Merely defend your work, don't go into heat.

I never actually say the "gently caress you, I like that in there" I merely think it :laugh: if you'll look at each review I have received on this site you will find I have been civil and measured in my responses, and have indeed taken positive influence from them. why are you resorting to a personal attack, that seems rather low. you're just doing what I have accused people of..not you necessarily or specifically

haha derek is a weirdo!

I never actually say the "gently caress you, I like that in there" I merely think it :laugh:

I figured but that just shows your closed mind. Is your work so perfect that it can't be improved?

yes I am a weirdo. did you read what I just posted...my work can always improve.that's why I always take positive influence from any comments I receive, either positive or negative. remember, my post is for very young people who are just starting out who don't know even how to USE negative comments because their compositional vocabulary isn't developed yet. mine is very developed so I can take positive and negative comments and use them both for my own growth. It is possible to maintain one's own aesthetic with an internal "gently caress you, I like it that way" AND expand upon one's vocabulary based on others' comments in a way that suits you.